tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post6724608354929622355..comments2024-03-28T07:02:04.892-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: The conflict of moral principle versus hard realityPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-40104204638457742792009-03-02T21:40:00.000-06:002009-03-02T21:40:00.000-06:00Peter,I have a similar mind to "a different "Joe""...Peter,<BR/><BR/>I have a similar mind to "a different "Joe"". The best we can do as disciples is to be examples physically and spiritually to everyone we encounter. My bedrock is that we were given the ultimate gift of individual choice. It is married with the ultimate responsibility for that choice.<BR/><BR/>My take on others (and my) actions is that we make our choices and if they are wrong, then seek forgiveness. Where the white / black line is drawn for me is on Judgment Day, in front of God. He will decide whether my penance is done for the poor choices I have made.<BR/><BR/>I pray every night it's enough.<BR/><BR/>SteveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-55682830236826278822009-02-28T22:31:00.000-06:002009-02-28T22:31:00.000-06:00Peter, A quick opinion on abortion from an atheist...Peter, <BR/><BR/>A quick opinion on abortion from an atheist. When does a person become a person? When they have the full set of DNA that permits eventual independent existence. I'm in agreement with your stance on the fallacy of independence as a basis for existence. The fact that a fetus is dependant within its mother does not make it "her"; it's a separate entity dependent on her for survival, much as an infant would be dependent upon it's mother if there are no other people to take care of it. <BR/><BR/>As far as I'm concerned, you're a person from conception to death.MauserMedichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09657229228172032650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-45278519441894690042009-02-28T21:27:00.000-06:002009-02-28T21:27:00.000-06:00I believe that as we cannot tell when the baby ins...I believe that as we cannot tell when the baby inside become human, acquires a mind and soul, it is imperative that we treat them as a human from the start. As such, I am firmly and fiercely pro-choice. <BR/><BR/>I will not be made slave to another person, not be forced to submit my body and mind to another's will - whether the rapist or the child inside that grows from his seed. No matter the guilt or innocence of the child, if you force me to carry it to term, you have enslaved my body against my will. If I must kill another person to keep my freedom, I will do so, no matter the cost. <BR/><BR/>Do not think you can back me into a corner and tell me that I must carry a child to term because it is innocent, no matter the cost to me: Long before the bruises faded, I had already firmly come to the conclusion that if I was pregnant by that monster, I would kill it - even if it meant killing myself in the process. <BR/><BR/>I was fourteen, had no money of my own, no transportation, no pharmacies with plan B, and there certainly wasn't a clinic nearby I could simply walk in and have it done without fuss and bother. I did have access to a razor, and running water, and a grim determination that I was not going to live with his seed growing inside me. <BR/><BR/>So yes, it is morally wrong to murder another. I would have done it anyway, and fiercely defend the right of others to do the same. I will not whitewash that killing with moral equivalency or hypocrisy - but I will not agree that the ideal of saving one life is worth the acceptance of enslaving another's, and turn a blind eye to maintain a false sense of moral high ground. <BR/><BR/>He bruised and tore my body, he shattered my heart, he stained my honor and scarred my mind - but my soul is mine alone to sully or shine, and I will meet this issue with a steely integrity, acknowledging that sometimes I can only pick the best of the bad choices, and struggle through. <BR/><BR/>(I will, though, post this anonymously. Integrity is not the same as leaving yourself wide open for attacks from internet trolls.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-80329976463033625272009-02-28T09:53:00.000-06:002009-02-28T09:53:00.000-06:00Peter,By "viability", I mean the ability to surviv...Peter,<BR/><BR/>By "viability", I mean the ability to survive in any form apart from the mother. That would be around 21 weeks gestation. Until that point, since it is not at all capable of surviving apart from the mother, I consider it part of her rather than an individual.<BR/><BR/>After it is capable of existence apart from its mother (even if it would still be dependent on medical assistance), it is an individual that is inside her rather than one more part of her.Andrew Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09486716058377059434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-67732076480475545242009-02-28T08:19:00.000-06:002009-02-28T08:19:00.000-06:00Gonna address the abortion issue here, to give a f...Gonna address the abortion issue here, to give a female perspective.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I'm pro-choice. That does not mean I approve of abortion as a primary contraceptive, however. Actually anyone using abortion as a primary contraceptive when there are other options readily available (including Plan B) should be slapped, in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>On a personal level, I don't know if I would be able to abort, myself. However, I know that there are circumstances out there that I have not come across. Rape. Abuse. Could a woman bear a child of rape, or a young girl the child of sexual abuse, and raise it without prejudice? It would take a very special person to do so, I think, and nearly as special a person to carry such a child to term for adoption, without causing irreparable mental harm to the mother.<BR/><BR/>And what about health concerns? If I were faced with the choice between terminating a pregnancy, and the likelihood that both I and my child would die in the course of the pregnancy, I don't know what I would choose.<BR/><BR/>While I'm pro-choice, I feel that the emphasis should be less on "it's *my* body" and more on "it's *my* responsibility."<BR/><BR/>If I choose to get an abortion, yes, it's my body and my choice. It's also my responsibility to consider the moral implications of my actions, and where they fit into my own moral framework. <BR/><BR/>Women should not only know that they have the ability to abort, but that it really *is* a Big Deal.FarmGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07109427921448753169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-53352759923743874512009-02-28T03:15:00.000-06:002009-02-28T03:15:00.000-06:00As a Christian, this is a "standard" conundrum. It...As a Christian, this is a "standard" conundrum. It applies not only to abortion and drugs but to other issues as well. There are a number of people in my congregation who feel that any government program to help the poor is morally justifiable because it's the "Christian" thing to do. I differ a bit. Yes, it's Christian to help the poor, but we can't use force to make others behave in accordance with OUR beliefs. That would be decidedly UN-Christian.<BR/><BR/>With that in mind, and harking back a bit to the original post about the UN and the Vatican, if the Pope feels that the UN's position is contrary to Roman Catholic dogma, then he is OBLIGED to withdraw Vatican support for it. That's as far as his power should extend, however. Just as I can only live my life the best I can according to my Christian values, which include not FORCING my beliefs on others. You cannot convert a pagan (or other non-Christian) society into a Christian one at the point of a gun.<BR/><BR/>-a different "Joe"joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14981428927321701616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85832038156370519862009-02-28T02:34:00.000-06:002009-02-28T02:34:00.000-06:00Andrew, with the greatest of respect, 'viability' ...Andrew, with the greatest of respect, 'viability' isn't an acceptable argument. If it were, you could morally justify killing the incompetent elderly, or even infants, on the grounds that they're not 'viable' without constant care and assistance and supervision from others. If, on the other hand, you mean 'viability' in the sense that given such outside assistance, the infant will remain alive, breathing on his/her own, then why do we bother providing incubators for premature babies? They're just as non-viable as the foetuses we abort - yet we treat them differently.<BR/><BR/>From my moral perspective, I don't think it's ever possible to justify abortion on grounds related to the foetus/infant. When factors relating to the mother are added to the mix, such as rape, I'd agree that can sometimes change the picture.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-27020084336294017732009-02-27T23:30:00.000-06:002009-02-27T23:30:00.000-06:00I feel that we are here to face such hard question...I feel that we are here to face such hard question and answer them as best we can. This is not a new problem. Sometimes people have to make life or death choices, although technology has expanded the possibility of when people can make such choices, it has also let us just live well enough that we generally don't need to make such choices.<BR/><BR/>I think that it is important that many of these decisions are trade-off most frequently of short-term vs. long-term benefits. Many issues of drugs can be seen in this light. It might be better in the long run to be bastards to the people trapped in addiction, and prevent future addicts, but do we really want to treat people that have such little control of their lives already to the harshness of a judgmental society. <BR/><BR/>Many desire to make humanity perfect either by declaring the existence of sin impossible. Or trying to constrain people's lives and thoughts so that sin can never be committed. I do not feel that either choice allows humans to live to their potential.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02891026012522167083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-86862025556129232382009-02-27T22:55:00.000-06:002009-02-27T22:55:00.000-06:00I'm not a Christian. I do not believe that we sho...I'm not a Christian. <BR/><BR/>I do not believe that we should have laws against consensual crimes.<BR/><BR/>Although use of hard drugs is immoral in most circumstances, they should remain legal--The costs of prohibition far outweigh the benefits. How much better off would Mexico be if drugs were treated like Tequila? How much more freedom would we have without the War on Some Drugs? <BR/><BR/>I think our current laws do little to reduce hard drug use, and may in fact increase it. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, making drugs legal should not absolve users of their responsibility. You can't use around children, especially children you are responsible for. Employers should retain the right to insist you are drug free. (I think this does more to restrict drug use than laws, although my sample is biased by my associates) <BR/><BR/>I understand that many cannot compromise on abortion--I respect your view especially, since you separate abortion from birth control--Separating the non-consent of the fetus from the consensual activity of the adults. Although I am pro-choice, my views are at least somewhat similar to yours, except I place emphasis on the right of the mother. Abortion is immoral as primary contraception. With the current availability of birth control, it is immoral to have unprotected sex unless you have the willingness and ability to raise any resulting offspring. Early abortion is better than having a child that will not be loved or properly cared for. I don't think it is a human being at the moment of conception, I think it is human some time before birth--Therefore if an abortion is to be done, it should be done as early as possible. <BR/><BR/>In most cases, criminal law should be limited to the dark gray to black area--There is a lot of behavior that I consider wrong that should not be illegal. <BR/><BR/>As far as "imposing your moral code on others"--According to your belief, does that do any good? I thought the willingness to commit a sin was a sin by itself, even if the means were currently unavailable.Sevesteenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15439626386416115766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-43145824011984112562009-02-27T22:54:00.000-06:002009-02-27T22:54:00.000-06:00Peter,The age old problem every free thinker must ...Peter,<BR/><BR/>The age old problem every free thinker must face.<BR/><BR/>If you ever find yourself in Seattle, call me, I'll buy you a beer.MadRocketScientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01361101727751874921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-17133374846776058702009-02-27T22:09:00.000-06:002009-02-27T22:09:00.000-06:00I am the son of a Presbyterian pastor, and still i...I am the son of a Presbyterian pastor, and still identify as Christian, although I am not currently active within a church.<BR/><BR/>My view is that an embryo/fetus is only a potential person until it is capable of viability outside the womb, and for that reason, abortion should be legal up to that point. That potential person is still of great value, and should not be terminated lightly, but is not entitled to human rights. I believe we as a society should work to reduce abortion rates, but that making abortion illegal would only have a minor impact on actual abortion rates, while having a significant impact on mortality rates of women getting abortions. I do not think abortion is a good choice, but is sometimes the least bad choice. The government is less capable of making that call than the woman in question.<BR/><BR/>The main areas I think we as a society need to concentrate on are sex ed and increasing our adoption rate. Many in our country say that all children are precious, but our adoption rate doesn't reflect that belief.<BR/><BR/>On drugs, I believe people have a right to put any substance into their body that they desire. Alcohol is much more damaging to both individuals and society than many other, illegal substances. Instead of ineffectively outlawing them, we should pursue intensive education campaigns and substantially tax the use of all recreational drugs.Andrew Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09486716058377059434noreply@blogger.com