tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post1347450111068102855..comments2024-03-29T04:54:50.435-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: The 'death' of shop class?Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85428438584138437262014-10-05T11:44:10.788-05:002014-10-05T11:44:10.788-05:00One of my sons recently landed a job as a diesel e...One of my sons recently landed a job as a diesel engine mechanic at a local truck stop. Good for him!<br /><br />When he came over to share his news with us, another young man was also visiting. That young man absolutely <i>could not</i> wrap his head around my son's new job.<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> [shares his news]<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> Working on trucks, huh? Well, I guess someone has to do it. <br /><br /><b>Son:</b> I like working with my hands. And the pay is really good.<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> So you majored in mechanical work?<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> ??<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> Like, did you get your bachelor's degree in fixing engines?<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> No, I didn't go to college.<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> You mean, you didn't go to college for working on engines, right? Of course you went to college.<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> No. I didn't go to college.<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> But how can you know how to fix an engine if you didn't go to college?<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> [points out the window to the cars in the driveway] I've been wrenching on cars since I was 10 years old. You know this.<br /><br /><b>Friend:</b> That's not the same thing! How can you get a job if you don't go to college?<br /><br /><b>Son:</b> I managed.<br />paxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-35249740363831036272014-10-02T00:50:04.164-05:002014-10-02T00:50:04.164-05:00Another incentive for getting rid of shop classes ...Another incentive for getting rid of shop classes is political. <br /><br />The trades are generally intolerant of bullshit, and thus tend conservative. Plumbing either leaks or it doesn't. Walls and floors are plumb, square, and level or not. Electricity either flows safely, or starts a fire. Carpenters, electricians, and plumbers want to solve problems, and make things WORK! After a while, anybody can see that Liberals don't want to solve problems - they want to milk them for votes (and graft).<br /><br />Joe the Plumber is not a fan of the socialists, and the socialists hate him for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-8144106336362781522014-10-01T11:47:17.704-05:002014-10-01T11:47:17.704-05:00I've seen it as a cost problem. Large shop to...I've seen it as a cost problem. Large shop tools: lathes and mills are expensive to buy, feed and house. As in the electricity, tooling and stock. Not to mention a skilled instructor.<br /><br />If you have a room that can hold 30 lathes, it'll hold 200 seats. The school can teach some inane "studies" class to 200 tuition payers per hour as opposed to 30 tuition payers in the shop. It's simple math. And how many kids want to use their hands for anything but texting now? They are trained to want the high paying, white collar-type job, where they don't have to do anything physical.<br /><br />Universities are in the business of making money. Whether they are public or private. When the government got in the tuition racket, the cost of tuition went up by at least as much as .gov contributed.<br /><br />If you have kids and are looking for a good place to learn, look at the lab portion of the engineering programs. I took a BS in Electrical Engineering Technology at LetU back in the late 80's. I had to take intro to welding with a lab, intro machine tools with a lab and other practical courses.... for an electronics degree. Best money I ever spent. I found skills that I didn't know I was capable of.STxARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04588850178293194825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-29124190555505256492014-10-01T04:04:45.053-05:002014-10-01T04:04:45.053-05:00The dumbing down of America continues. First, the...The dumbing down of America continues. First, they decided to stop teaching cursive writing, and now apparently it's out the door with shop class. Common Core will ensure that kids don't understand math. You couldn't destroy education better if you were acting purposely to do it. Wait...c w swansonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02735507642689652780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-77096597121189229542014-09-30T20:04:56.698-05:002014-09-30T20:04:56.698-05:00The very sad thing about the demise of the shop pr...The very sad thing about the demise of the shop program is that people don't learn how things work. After High school I fished and worked in processing plants for about 90+ years, In my mid thirties I went back to school and worked as a surveyor until i had to quit because of an injury to my knee. During this time I also worked odd jobs, built boats and kayaks, did this, that, and the other. At the present I get up at OMFGWTTII to bake in my wife's cafe. I am 67 years old, most of the income I've generated in my life falls back on learning how things worked in 9th and 10th grade shop class. The math certainly comes in handy, knowing what to do with it counts for more.zdogk9https://www.blogger.com/profile/04295483098573950904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-47324594777579533412014-09-30T17:19:39.113-05:002014-09-30T17:19:39.113-05:00I had a need for an electrician recently and calle...I had a need for an electrician recently and called a guy whom we know who runs a small shop. He was saying they are so desperate for electrical trainees that they started a program at the local community college <i> and give it away!</i> They are literally giving away free tuition to get training for a job that makes considerably more than minimum wage.<br /><br />SiGraybeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280583031339062059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-12842198170198144672014-09-30T16:25:49.650-05:002014-09-30T16:25:49.650-05:00In the light of this analysis Carlyle's rhapso...<i>In the light of this analysis Carlyle's rhapsody on tools becomes a prosaic fact, and his conclusion—that man without tools is nothing, with tools all—points the way to the discovery of the philosopher's stone in education. For if man without tools is nothing, to be unable to use tools is to be destitute of power; and if with tools he is all, to be able to use tools is to be all-powerful. And this power in the concrete, the power to do some useful thing for man—this is the last analysis of educational truth. Charles H. Ham, Mind and Hand: manual training, the chief factor in education (1900)</i><br /><br /><br />That has become one of my favorite quotes. The book was advocating the creation of schools that trained both the mind and the hand. It has several chapters laying out the school, which wouldn't be bad today, although not directly vocational since there is little call for blacksmithing, pattern making, casting, etc. It was a movement that MIT came out of and MIT still has mind and hand in their motto. Most of the book, it's been scanned online, is a discussion of education, the value of the useful arts and the historical denigration of those who can do create something useful with their hands. <br /><br />Sadly, the loss of "shop" class, a poor substitute for a school of the mind and hand, has been happening since the mid-1970s. When I entered high school way back then, they'd just shut down the classes on campus and you had to give up half your day travel way up county to the vocational school, which, unofficially, was for the non-college material. I never could get my schedule set up to take a class, well until my senior year when it was to late, so I just worked and came to school late for the classes I had to have to graduate. Oh, and drank. <br /><br />Now the more critical part these days is that most kids don't get exposed to tools and tool skills by fathers (or mothers) anymore. Few repair their own lawnmower or swap out their own outlets. Much less weld or make things. Grandpas do some woodworking but they are learning themselves not having learned the skills just 30 years ago. <br /><br />And while vocational training in a particular area isn't necessarily what is needed, teaching all kids, college-bound or not, tool skills would be beneficial. If only so they have some comprehension of what is being described in their literature reading or the travails in their history books. <br /><br />As an aside, with the denigration of the Bible in schools, students really can't comprehend most of the Medieval literature, music, art, etc. from the Western Civilization. The "educators" were so focused on their indoctrination schemes they missed that their beloved courses required an underpinning of what they denigrated.JKBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-11383437440281831952014-09-30T16:05:36.450-05:002014-09-30T16:05:36.450-05:00Big +1 to what Rolf said.
I grew up in an "o...Big +1 to what Rolf said.<br /><br />I grew up in an "outsource everything" family. Since becoming a machinist some ten years ago, my attitude has gone from "call the handyman" to "I'll take a swing at it". It's saved me thousands upon thousands of dollars by taking the DIY approach, and every new project I undertake and learn skills to complete reinforces my resiliency in the impending crisis.<br /><br />The educational cartel benefits from shipping every single child into expensive, watered down, brainwashing "higher education" that leeches billions of dollars from Joe Taxpayer in the form of federal student aid and hands it to the Gramscian, Alinskyite cultural Marxists of our universities.<br /><br />Which to you think our rulers prefer? Strong, capable, resilient men with a "can-do" attitude, or weak, emasculated, "oh gosh I can't do that I need an expert" effete males?Andrew Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-8224061390330401142014-09-30T14:05:21.157-05:002014-09-30T14:05:21.157-05:00The most troubling thing I see about is that it is...The most troubling thing I see about is that it is yet another step in removing kids for having to interact with the natural world, working with their hands and bodies and where making mistakes have instant and painful reminders that do not depend on written rules or an observing seeing you, noting it, and prosecuting the infraction. <br /><br />That, over and above any specific skills learned, will do the most damage, particularly to boys who are not academically inclined. Going from a nation of "can do anything" to "outsource everything."Rolfhttp://www.thestarscameback.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-38949418792372507922014-09-30T12:16:41.270-05:002014-09-30T12:16:41.270-05:00As someone who's in their 40's, perfectly ...As someone who's in their 40's, perfectly willing to learn a trade and has at least 20 years of working left in them...<br /><br />Nope. Too old, don't apply.<br /><br />Nope. You've got a degree already, don't apply.<br /><br />Apparently there's not so much shortage that they're willing to take anyone who applies.Angus McThaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09295013525738248801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-76224689384228398432014-09-30T08:35:49.490-05:002014-09-30T08:35:49.490-05:00Now 70, I've used the skills learned in shop c...Now 70, I've used the skills learned in shop classes far more times than the "knowledge" learned in college classes.Well Seasoned Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16670165728759453075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-77209806247502936152014-09-30T07:56:14.291-05:002014-09-30T07:56:14.291-05:00"You MUST have a college degree to get-"..."You MUST have a college degree to get-" etc., blah blah. And they don't care if there are no jobs for the 'career' your degree is in, or if you can actually DO anything, you MUST get that degree. And go into horrendous debt doing it. Because actually working with your hands and getting dirty is to be discouraged.<br /><br />While mechanics and plumbers and machinists and on and on make damn good money, and good ones often have waiting lists of customers, and wish they could hire someone who can count, read and write, and is willing to work, to train.Firehandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562365951182027709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-81639003405489945162014-09-30T07:20:34.365-05:002014-09-30T07:20:34.365-05:00Rolls is right on the liability, the other part? ...Rolls is right on the liability, the other part? It's 'demeaning' to teach people how to fix things... sigh...Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85730076301527429972014-09-30T06:57:49.997-05:002014-09-30T06:57:49.997-05:00I suspect that liability is another reason for clo...I suspect that liability is another reason for closing down shop classes - it's pretty hard to lose a finger in a computer class.RollsCanardlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10614605001998557836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-57181179723069218012014-09-30T05:24:28.786-05:002014-09-30T05:24:28.786-05:00I'm convinced a person could make a good side ...I'm convinced a person could make a good side business repairing appliances and hand held electronics which have gone on the blink and are tossed out rather than repaired. The only lack is a place to display them for sale - any ideas on how to fix that ?<br /><br />Its pretty easy to do - I'm not mechanically inclined at all and was able to diagnose and fix a pair of VHS players that went out on us. The conventional wisdom is toss them out and replace with a cheap unit, but no - its really easy to fix, at least enough to try.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com