tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post1852364583343955906..comments2024-03-28T23:57:50.103-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: Thoughts on the 2015 Hugo AwardsPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-69418145327412355272015-08-24T08:26:28.287-05:002015-08-24T08:26:28.287-05:00Hmmm, they block-voted the party line? Sounds fami...Hmmm, they block-voted the party line? Sounds familiar<br /><br />https://callingthroughthefog.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/a-watchlist/<br /><br />W Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16505952939743757524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-70869809405473061992015-08-24T03:48:58.540-05:002015-08-24T03:48:58.540-05:00"the scale of their defeat may drive many of ..."the scale of their defeat may drive many of the formerly-more-moderate Sad Puppies into the more radical Rabid Puppies camp."<br /><br />Not the scale of the defeat, and not even the defeat itself, as it was quite expected, but rather the way in which it was handled and the overt glee and malice in which it was conducted.<br /><br />Between that and things like this:<br />http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/08/in-memoriam-of-the-hugo-awards/<br />I have new switched from sad puppy supporter in spirit (but not voting) to rabid.<br /><br />Furthermore, the implications by some that the puppies are just another group wishing to push their slate onto fandom/readers in place of the SJW/Torlings completely misunderstand. The ultimate goal is to expand participation to the point that NO SINGLE GROUP can dominate as has happened in the past.<br /><br />When that happens, most of the current issues will become moot.<br />Until that happens, I am now rabid.BBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-54103024222156390102015-08-23T22:31:41.483-05:002015-08-23T22:31:41.483-05:00Old NFO, where did you read that in the rules? I c...Old NFO, where did you read that in the rules? I can't find it, but I only scanned through it a few times on my phone.Hightecrebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12105154969289523695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-59752080780773422602015-08-23T21:57:43.291-05:002015-08-23T21:57:43.291-05:00I've seen multiple confirmations on Toni walki...I've seen multiple confirmations on Toni walking out, the most direct and attributable at<br />http://bar.baen.com/index.php?t=msg&th=117337&start=0&<br /><br />apparently several walked out during the pre-presentation puppy hazing<br /><br />quote (quoting Chris French)<br /><br />An announcement was made by Someone With Authority (I don't know who), that as this was the 'Year Of Exclamation Points' (most supporting members ever; most Hugo voters ever, etc.), 'all nominees would be presented with "Year of the Exclamation Point Awards" -- and it's just coincidence that the six exclamation points are configured in the shape of a Giant Asterik [ * ]'....<br /><br />At that point, The Lady Weisskopf said 'Are you kidding me', and left -- with me three feet behind her. (I wore my Ripple Creek T-shirt today; There Is A Reason For This.)David Langnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-9282753706276399262015-08-23T19:55:12.918-05:002015-08-23T19:55:12.918-05:00@Uncle Lars -- exactly! When I first heard about ...@Uncle Lars -- exactly! When I first heard about SP (and by extension, RP), I checked the list of Hugo winners for novels on Wikipedia. For the older books, I've heard of them (even if I haven't read them); these books have filtered into the general populace as worthy SFF books. However, around the early 1990s, books start appearing that I've never heard of (for that matter, I've rarely heard of the authors), and therefore they haven't crossed into the general populace. <br /><br />I think the SJWs have underestimated the importance of mass appeal; everyone's heard of Barbara Cartland (romance), Looks Lamour (western), Agatha Christie and Arthur Conan Doyle (mystery), Robert A. Heinlein and Ray Bradbury (sf); what SJW writers have made that jump? <br /><br />Those genre names I listed are bridges for the general public, they can mention those and people almost always have a frame of reference. From my perspective, the SJW writers are busy creating ghettos (not bridges); then they wonder why the genres are dying.<br /><br /><br />freddie_macnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-74870285085343713512015-08-23T19:37:09.495-05:002015-08-23T19:37:09.495-05:00I cut my teeth in reading for enjoyment on Mickey ...I cut my teeth in reading for enjoyment on Mickey Spillane and Heinlien. Remem er vaguely that Heinlein had won something called a "Hugo", it meant nothing to me at the time. I learn of books by reccomendation of friends, or by reading other product of the author. (Such as yourself, Peter.) In short, the Hugos mean as much to me now as they did then; ZIP. Even less, because of the leftist takeover er of the Institution.JohninMd.(HELP?!??)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-52776327637074272712015-08-23T19:06:27.255-05:002015-08-23T19:06:27.255-05:00Peter,
I'm not a fan of the subject Genre, but...Peter,<br />I'm not a fan of the subject Genre, but I've noted your long-time passion on this topic with interest. Because I respect your intellect and insight on many topics that ARE of interest to me, I do the usual thing of aligning with allies.<br /><br />As a childhood hero said (on a cereal box, IIRC), "When you know you're right, go ahead."<br />Good luck<br />TomLeatherneckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00737350717312065042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-81804563005249690372015-08-23T17:57:35.788-05:002015-08-23T17:57:35.788-05:00Yeah, I've been a reasonably passive sad puppy...Yeah, I've been a reasonably passive sad puppy. The awards ceremony was the last straw for me. The only real question I have left to answer for myself is do I join the Rabid Puppies, or do I cry a pox on both your houses. <br /><br />While I think the puppies underestimated the pushback, I think we saw the full deployment of the SJB side. I would be greatly surprised if Vox cannot surpass that number, if not next year, the year after that.<br /><br />If Old NFO is correct about the "two in a row" canceling a category, I'm going to bet 2-3 of those categories are gone after the next Hugo's if not all five.<br /><br />Yeah, there's an echo chamber on both sides. But the triumphalism of the Hugo award ceremony has made the rabid ones more determined and the SJB's more abusive. It's not going to destroy fandom, but it's not going to end well for the Hugo's or for Worldcon.<br /><br />Without the Hugo's, worldcon doesn't exist. And most successful SF authors no longer see it as anything useful. Look at the SF writers who are actually making a real living at it and you don't see those people on Worldcon voter lists. Nor will you in the future I think. <br /><br />After this year, you may not see Baen there any more either. <br /><br />On a final note, I would not be proud to wear the "asterisk" they designed. It's the major component of the emoticon for (to be clinical rather than crude) anal sphincter. <br /><br />Yes, I'm an old fart who speaks geek. :) <br />Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08302043608284733000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-64896282233346251092015-08-23T17:39:54.943-05:002015-08-23T17:39:54.943-05:00And people who seem to be unaware of your TOR boyc...And people who seem to be unaware of your TOR boycott are posting their intention to never buy TOR again.For myself I want to see the hugo return to respectability and actually mean something besides "This is dreck do not attempt to enjoy you will be disappointed".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-74387972070113731062015-08-23T17:15:55.140-05:002015-08-23T17:15:55.140-05:00Mike Williamson is the person who reported it. I f...Mike Williamson is the person who reported it. I first heard it at Vox Day's Hugo Brainstorm last night. He had the person cite his source.Iron Lady Visaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-78450375104523776242015-08-23T16:55:44.551-05:002015-08-23T16:55:44.551-05:00Can anyone actually confirm that Toni walked out? ...Can anyone actually confirm that Toni walked out? That seems like a rather extreme measure for her to take. I would have guessed that she would stick it out rather than walk out as a way of making a statement, unless things got even worse than I've heard reported.David Langnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-37825809364485145652015-08-23T16:43:31.293-05:002015-08-23T16:43:31.293-05:00Actually, my comment above was not meant to be har...Actually, my comment above was not meant to be harsh - the awards are probably very important inside the industry for contract rates and so forth.<br />But I doubt that we the readers care much.<br />Charlie Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14711194082485871790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-87063700526323368822015-08-23T16:39:13.521-05:002015-08-23T16:39:13.521-05:00I've gotta agree with Sherm. More than anythin...I've gotta agree with Sherm. More than anything else, the politicization of the Hugos has driven me away from Sci-Fi and Fantasy in general. I read to escape, and the idea of having to carefully pick my authors and publishing houses to avoid supporting the "wrong" side is, more than anything else, exhausting. There are so many good books out there and it's much easier to simply choose a category less fraught with recriminations.<br /><br />I can't imagine why any young person would choose to dive into a genre where all of their literary heroes are engaged in an epic bout of schoolyard name calling...bmq215https://www.blogger.com/profile/06753133447458358901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-73277842518892294992015-08-23T16:36:58.827-05:002015-08-23T16:36:58.827-05:00I read a lot (I have read and enjoyed your book, W...I read a lot (I have read and enjoyed your book, War To The Knife).<br /><br />I hope I speak for many others when I say that awards have never, do not now, and never will, enter into my decision to buy or not buy a particular book.<br /><br />Those people can scream all they want - nobody else cares.<br />Charlie Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14711194082485871790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-15334060993472394642015-08-23T15:57:34.215-05:002015-08-23T15:57:34.215-05:00I read very little SF but what I read I read becau...I read very little SF but what I read I read because of what I've heard from others. No one I hear from every uses a Hugo award to tout anything to me. I realize, after watching all that's been happening the past few years with the Hugo, the lack of mention is because so much of what is winning awards is drivel.<br /><br />I'll continue to mostly swear off SF. I've enjoyed what I've read by Kloos. I don't particularly like what I've read by Correia. I've a second by some guy named Grant in the chute to read.<br /><br />However, in general, I'll stick with library books published at least 15 or 20 years ago.Shermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07098953206824247173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-24179931798796666142015-08-23T15:51:54.180-05:002015-08-23T15:51:54.180-05:00For anyone who is curious about Peter's statem...For anyone who is curious about Peter's statement that there have only been 5 No Awards previous to the 2015 Hugo Awards:<br /><br />I went to the source at hugoawards.org and went through the history. <br />1959: Best SF or Fantasy Movie--No Award; Best New Author--No Award<br />1963: Best Dramatic Presentation--No Award<br />1971: Best Dramatic Presentation--No Award<br />1977: Best Dramatic Presentation--No Award<br /><br />Also, comments at http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/2015-hugo-awards/ show folks frothing at the mouth about Puppy ballot stuffing with clutching at pearls and calls for Someone to Do Something. Kevin Standlee is telling everyone that everyone has a vote and the Hugo Administrators will not be activists-you want a change, then buy a membership, nominate, and vote.Iron Lady Visaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-48544583418404711732015-08-23T15:49:00.962-05:002015-08-23T15:49:00.962-05:00So, if I read the rules right, a second set of No ...So, if I read the rules right, a second set of No Awards in the same category will kill that category forever... One wonders if they've really thought through what they've set up to potentially happen??? And that was truly sad last night. The bias was plain to see, starting with the pre-show interviews, progressing through the 'asterisk' BS, and the awards. Especially when Gerrold said it was okay to cheer a no award, but not boo one... RIP Hugo, you once meant something...Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-67528444483668335102015-08-23T15:47:38.378-05:002015-08-23T15:47:38.378-05:00I don't know who is at fault, if the fault is ...I don't know who is at fault, if the fault is shared, and nor do I care. My takeaway is that as an indication that "this book is worth your time", the Hugos are valueless.Comrade Misfithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15404477636451308763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-11893607141681241082015-08-23T14:32:05.402-05:002015-08-23T14:32:05.402-05:00Last night's actions by the elite SJW crowd ai...Last night's actions by the elite SJW crowd aided and abetted by the Worldcon committee members apparently, was the final death throw of any respectability still attached to the Hugo awards. Let's just post a DNR and wait for that final death rattle, which I'm certain Vox will be more than willing to facilitate.<br />It's a shame really. The Hugo awards used to mean something, the nominees let alone the winners were the best of the best for that year in the science fiction and fantasy realm. Then a select clique managed to game the system and use the awards to flatter and reward each other and a group of their friends, folks who wrote the "right" sort of socially advanced stuff. And I suspect the rest of us would have simply let them had they not at the same time demanded that we acknowledge that the tripe they were giving awards to still possessed the same cache as those fine old winners of past years. And what that was doing was turning new potential fans away from the SF&F genre in droves. They tried the new Hugo winners, found them preachy and not at all entertaining, so went elsewhere with their dollars and time for leisure enjoyment.<br />I have it on good authority that there will be a Sad Puppies 4 and feel certain that barring the sudden mysterious disappearance of Vox Day there will also be another Rabid Puppies. Should be quite the entertaining event don't you think?<br />Uncle Larhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04008207593205949098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-16581694213418917082015-08-23T14:24:13.841-05:002015-08-23T14:24:13.841-05:00Your attitude is understandable as a man of God, P...Your attitude is understandable as a man of God, Peter, but... I have to disagree. The behavior last night was the last straw, IMO. Call me names and spit on what I believe in because I had the audacity to stand up and be counted? Rabid, here I come.tweellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164718561825615886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-37899621113493273022015-08-23T14:08:37.547-05:002015-08-23T14:08:37.547-05:00Well, Peter, I'm a Sad Puppy supporter who was...Well, Peter, I'm a Sad Puppy supporter who was already leaning toward the Rabid side of things after the oh-so-tolerant SJW crowd drove Marko Kloos and Annie Bellot off the ballot. Last night's results just confirms Vox Day was right all along, just as SP1 and SP2 proved conclusively Larry Correia was right all along. <br /><br />Vox's pick for Best Novel, "Three Body Problem," won - and it was on the ballot only because Kloos withdrew in the first place! - and they scorched-earthed the rest of the ballot out of spite, hooting and hollering like a pack of apes while they did it. And this is what SJWers call "victory." The hilarious thing that none of them seem to realize is that's what Vox also considers victory, perhaps due to Vox's talent at living rent-free in their heads. <br /><br />That said, I wonder how many of the "No Award" voters were actually SJWs. Didn't (for example) Michael Z. Williamson say he was going to No Award everything as a protest himself, despite being one of the SP nominees and sympathetic to the Puppy point of view, simply due to the Hugos having already been politicized?<br /><br />Myself, I think it's too late to burn the Hugos; everybody who cares already knows that the award is nothing more than a participation trophy for people with the right attitudes and the right connections and who is adept at kissing the right behinds. I'm coming to the conclusion that future Puppy campaigns, although greatly entertaining, are merely exercises in urinating on ashes already thoroughly charred by the literary Left immolating their own reputations.<br /><br />--Wes S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com