tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post2320798645066750197..comments2024-03-29T08:01:26.952-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: Gender and the law - a fascinating fight is shaping upPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-26726378281122798442016-05-23T10:42:16.052-05:002016-05-23T10:42:16.052-05:00@Peter -
You're right of course in that Wiki...@Peter - <br /><br />You're right of course in that Wikipedia is not authoritative; It has multiple references of course, those are authoritative. It is convenient for Layman to point to. I point to Wikipedia... You state you've "talked" to geneticists... OK, great. Got some published papers on the subject you can quote? Or do we just take your word that their word is authoritative?<br /><br /> <br />In any case suppose I stipulate that it is 100% psychological. Great. Now what? What treatment do you think transgender persons should get? <br />Thorazine? ECT? Aversion therapy? Teach them their sick? They need to bury their desires deep down inside? Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-14034784793969454242016-05-20T16:29:37.538-05:002016-05-20T16:29:37.538-05:00@Chris Sutch: Stop tap-dancing around the subject...@Chris Sutch: Stop tap-dancing around the subject. There is no real ambiguity of the sort you're trying to allege. Wikipedia is not a medical authority and never will be. Talk to geneticists and those in the field (as I have), and the matter is far less 'cloudy' and much more clearly defined.<br /><br />The object of those in favor of gender diversity is always to 'cloud the issue' - obfuscate, prevaricate, bring in all sorts of extraneous concepts and issues that prevent one seeing clearly. Unfortunately for them, science is hard, not soft. Genetic and chromosomal issues can be clearly identified and measured. Yes, there are those with complications that make it very difficult to assess gender - but they are less (a LOT less) than 1% of the population. This can be measured very accurately. The others do NOT have genetic or chromosomal issues - they have psychological or psychiatric issues. The cure for the latter is NOT transition, because it isn't transition at all. Their genetic and chromosomal gender remains, irrespective of any surgically-imposed physical changes. It's merely living a lie, using surgery as a form of makeup to hide reality.<br /><br />I won't play that game. If we can't be honest, there's no point in continuing this discussion.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-23369925993768727892016-05-20T14:25:13.028-05:002016-05-20T14:25:13.028-05:00@Peter, You are of course free to disagree - you s...@Peter, You are of course free to disagree - you show your ignorance of the subject, but you're free to do that. <br /><br />As just a small example of that - Males produce estrogen - females produce testosterone - just in smaller amounts (usually). Males sometimes develop female secondary sexual characteristics (Gynecomastia for example.) Females at times develop male secondary sexual characteristics (the a fore mentioned Woman's mustache).<br /><br />The Wikipedia page on "Gender Verification in sports" states: It is not always a simple case of checking for XX vs. XY chromosomes to determine whether an athlete is unambiguously a woman or a man. Fetuses start out as undifferentiated, and the Y chromosome turns on a variety of hormones that differentiate the baby as a male. Sometimes this does not occur, and people with two X chromosomes can develop hormonally as a male, and people with an X and a Y can develop hormonally as a female.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_verification_in_sports<br /><br />You yourself acknowledge that it happens, to differing degrees & that's what we're talking about - differing degrees. <br /><br /><br /><br />And you disagree - and think it's all in their heads; and in some it may be - you say they need treatment. Guess what - the treatment? Is Transition. Ask a medical professional who specializes in it. Treat their overlying condition first, (substance abuse, depression, etc.) -- Then work towards transition if that's what they need. because otherwise? Their depression will come back. <br />Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-35221638099608699132016-05-18T16:39:44.345-05:002016-05-18T16:39:44.345-05:00@Chris Sutch: I'm sorry, but I completely dis...@Chris Sutch: I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with your statement that there's a <i>biological</i> or <i>genetic</i> or <i>chromosomal</i> continuum involved. There may be a <i>psychological</i> or <i>psychiatric</i> continuum, but that does not correspond to medical and physical reality.<br /><br />The chromosomal abnormalities that can result in an indeterminate sex are know, and can be measured. There's no continuum involved. To suggest that there is, is to force 'hard' science to conform to the 'soft' pseudoscience of the social so-called 'sciences'. It's to let emotion, feeling and perception undermine and subsume reality - and I'm simply not prepared to do that, or to allow anyone to insist that I should do so.<br /><br />Reality is reality. Psychological or psychiatric factors that cause some people to want to diverge from that reality are aberrations, and should be treated as such. For those very, very few who have genuine physical issues . . . I can only have the deepest sympathy, and offer them all the support I can in their terribly difficult journey. For those lacking such physical causes, I also offer sympathy, but I will not behave as if their wrong perceptions deserve my support and adherence. They need treatment to get their heads around their problem. Condoning and tolerating it will not do that.<br /><br />I know this approach is unpopular with people who put feeling and emotion ahead of verifiable physical and scientific reality. That's too bad, but it won't cause me to change it.<br />Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-3372155596500128252016-05-18T13:32:33.408-05:002016-05-18T13:32:33.408-05:00@Bibliotheca Servare
You state:
--The fact that c...@Bibliotheca Servare<br /><br />You state:<br />--The fact that chromosomal determination of sex is taught in grade school does not effect the veracity and accuracy of that fact. Rather, it suggests something unfortunate about your own intellectual capacity that even such simple, inarguable aspects of biology arggainre beyond your grasp---<br /><br />It is not that it's taught in grade school - it's that it's a simplistic MODEL. <br /><br />You think of the XY/XX as a simple switch On or OFF. <br />The truth is there's other genetic and biological factors at play. <br /><br />To put it in a visual Think of it like the color spectrum. <br />http://designbycoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/colors.jpg<br /><br />On the Journey from Purple to blue - Where does "precisely" does purple end & blue begin?Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-87799333643178970122016-05-17T19:23:30.509-05:002016-05-17T19:23:30.509-05:00Any logical refutation of the "reasoning"...Any logical refutation of the "reasoning" used to allow all this restroom usage "confusion" is doomed to failure with the bunch advocating for it. In what other area or topic do they use logic to arrive at a, well, logical, conclusion? It is just about what they want and when they want it. Not if it makes sense. Sense is not a consideration, Fool........bart simpsonsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01840436089787700707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-70819197072735116252016-05-16T21:01:43.338-05:002016-05-16T21:01:43.338-05:00Sorry, minor edit.
.03 to .005% of the population...Sorry, minor edit.<br /><br />.03 to .005% of the population.<br /> That is the size of the segment of humanity for whom the statement "XY is male, XX is female" is an inaccurate one. Three hundredths of one percent. Unless you are a member of that group of intersex individuals, your issue is a psychological one. Yes, mental illness sucks. Refusing to acknowledge that it *is* mental illness (because "female-looking brain structure"! the "science" is settled!!1!) is not a valid solution. Putting guns (the threat of state violence in the event of noncompliance) to the heads of the citizenry to force them to deny that it is a mental illness is also not a valid solution. Don't try argumentum ad verecundium here, Mr. Sutch. The fact that chromosomal determination of sex is taught in grade school does not effect the veracity and accuracy of that fact. Rather, it suggests something unfortunate about your own intellectual capacity that even such simple, inarguable aspects of biology arggainre beyond your grasp. The field of human biology and genetics is full of brilliant, doctorate-holding scientists who, with almost no exception, think that folks like yourself are batshit insane and/or dangerously ignorant with regards to this issue. *that* is a valid "argumentum ad verecundium". Voodoo and pseudoscientific, child-mutilating insanity are the only "authorities" on your side of this argument, Chris. Good luck with that.Bibliotheca Servarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11643412827583261562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-28379646297087041132016-05-16T20:58:35.293-05:002016-05-16T20:58:35.293-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bibliotheca Servarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11643412827583261562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-1477445166311165242016-05-16T16:22:30.174-05:002016-05-16T16:22:30.174-05:00@Peter - I don't think you read my link. Who&...@Peter - I don't think you read my link. Who's "he" in this context? There was no "He" here. This was a cis-Woman, wrongly accusing a cis-Woman of being Trans. <br /><br />So Tell me, what are you going to do exactly? Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-80547547482324467522016-05-16T15:55:58.537-05:002016-05-16T15:55:58.537-05:00In my opinion, Billll and Pawpaw nailed it. SJWs ...In my opinion, Billll and Pawpaw nailed it. SJWs want to force the rest of us to change our behaviors to suit their will. The exercise of power.<br /><br />Charlie<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-79735645190043704052016-05-16T15:43:11.879-05:002016-05-16T15:43:11.879-05:00@Chris Sutch: I'm not worried about that ever...@Chris Sutch: I'm not worried about that ever happening to my wife. Anyone trying to do that to her is very rapidly going to wish he hadn't, even if she's alone and I'm not around. If I <i>am</i> around, he's going to wish the same thing, squared.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-9882421155091837192016-05-16T14:56:50.937-05:002016-05-16T14:56:50.937-05:00Hi Peter
Your comments on North Carolina HB2 indi...Hi Peter<br /><br />Your comments on North Carolina HB2 indicate that you think that it's a law about bathroom usage. Sadly, it's anything but. I suggest you read this article (which contains a link to the bill in question) and see how damaging this is to workers and their rights not to be discriminated against. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-lloyd/mccrorys-house-bill-2-a-b_b_9966020.html<br /><br />The flashy bathroom section is such a false front, designed to stir up a fuss and take all attention away from the meat of the bill, that it doesn't even contain any penalties should someone ignore the regulations in Part 1 of the bill.<br /><br />Your sincerly<br />LiamLiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11963482988358500101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-70553101302073921982016-05-16T14:50:29.849-05:002016-05-16T14:50:29.849-05:00http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mista...http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Woman-mistaken-for-transgender-harassed-in-7471666.php#photo-10075104<br /><br />This is the end result. Harassing people who don't fit others expectations. How are you going to feel if this ever happens to your wife or mother who doesn't have time to shave/pluck their mustache that day?Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85314016833097048082016-05-16T14:25:25.265-05:002016-05-16T14:25:25.265-05:00"Chromosomes" aren't all there is to..."Chromosomes" aren't all there is to it.<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943<br /><br />"Biological sex isn't even as simple as "Penis/Vagina". That may be what you think of, but that's not all there is to it.<br /><br />The "Science" is far from simple. and the argument of XX female, XY male is an argument at about an 8th Grade level (enough to get a person interested in looking for more information). Genetics are complicated. People are complicated. and we don't all fit in your two nice little boxes. It would be great if we all did. The simple fact is, we don't. Many of us have FORCED ourselves to fit in those boxes over the years. and it hurts. Chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10731881933744231216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-72019058344524880912016-05-16T11:58:54.468-05:002016-05-16T11:58:54.468-05:00Will a coroner have to ask the corpse to self iden...Will a coroner have to ask the corpse to self identify it's gender?<br /><br />GerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-66726326558199451472016-05-16T11:27:38.377-05:002016-05-16T11:27:38.377-05:00Surprisingly, I own three gender-neutral bathrooms...Surprisingly, I own three gender-neutral bathrooms. In my home. Go inside, lock the door, do your business. No problems, no worries.<br /><br />This brouhaha is about the social justice warriors wanting everyone to care about their issues. Pawpawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14959820068377494313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-34394625952974241782016-05-16T07:24:46.222-05:002016-05-16T07:24:46.222-05:00The issue seems to bear a close resemblance to con...The issue seems to bear a close resemblance to concealed carry laws in that if you're doing a decent job of concealing what you're carrying then no harm, no foul. What's really going on is Obama taking one last opportunity to rub America's nose in the "I won" meme he's so proud of.Billllhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13913354887560267235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-46856481549916805552016-05-16T03:13:00.963-05:002016-05-16T03:13:00.963-05:00Other than this being an obvious example of the fe...Other than this being an obvious example of the federal government being way too large and needing to be cut down to size, rather severely, because it's nothing more than a leviathan imposing brute force on tjhe minions, I'm curious. <br /><br /><i>"There are (as I've pointed out before) some people (vanishingly few, as a proportion of the general population) who suffer from genuine, physical medical problems in this area;"</i><br /><br />Numbers, please, Peter, and I'll request precision: exactly how many people are so afflicted, and to what degree? I'm curious of the justification for upending millenia of human experience. <br /><br />I suspect it is, as you say, "vanishingly few," and when that's proved with hard numbers I'd like to find some attorneys interested in pursuing expensive and destructive legal remedies for other similarly small segments of the population. After all, Alinsky works both ways, and there's bound to be a sharp legalist somewhere capable of making Obama's and Lynch's retirement, shall we say, "interesting." Inconsiderate Bastardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-66845117139301776432016-05-16T01:16:36.999-05:002016-05-16T01:16:36.999-05:00*or* 3, not *and* 3. Dangit.*or* 3, not *and* 3. Dangit.Bibliotheca Servarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11643412827583261562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-78277873015358275452016-05-16T01:15:26.025-05:002016-05-16T01:15:26.025-05:00The law doesn't force anyone to do (or not do...The law doesn't force anyone to do (or not do) anything, except when they are 1: employed by the government and using a government "owned" restroom or shower facility, 2: not employed by the government, but using the aforementioned facilities, and 3: a person who would like to pass a law forcing businesses and business owners to capitulate to liberal insanity on this specific issue. In case 3, all the law does is make it impermissible to use local legislation to give liberal insanity regarding gender "identity" the force of law. It doesn't tell anyone what bathroom or shower to use unless that bathroom or shower is "owned" by the government. Private business owners can do what they wish. :-)Bibliotheca Servarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11643412827583261562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-14393936247798762622016-05-15T20:54:57.152-05:002016-05-15T20:54:57.152-05:00@richard mcenroe
libertarian principles, not the s...@richard mcenroe<br />libertarian principles, not the same as the Libertarian party, of which I am not a member.Hideousdwarfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12263002476207555653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-58308197258114311332016-05-15T19:16:02.314-05:002016-05-15T19:16:02.314-05:00For those who note that the focus is on bathrooms ...For those who note that the focus is on bathrooms vs the locker room, and wonder about their children, I'll provide the following history that doesn't seem to be reported in the MSM. The law was sponsored by the president of the Charlotte LGBT chamber who is a registered sex offender convicted of: Sevearance-Turner was arrested in 1998, when he was 20, and charged in Cherokee County, S.C., with a “lewd act, committing or attempting a lewd act upon a child under 16.”<br />http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article64943682.html<br /><br />So he got the gender law passed in Charlotte, and the State of NC passed its' law to override the Charlotte law. And we're off to the "bigoted" races.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-84027033792234734502016-05-15T18:37:16.862-05:002016-05-15T18:37:16.862-05:00HideousDwarf since Libertarian President Gary John...HideousDwarf since Libertarian President Gary Johnson said the state DOES have the power to force you into a contract to bake a cake for gays or Nazis, you might want to reconsider that.richard mcenroenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-80050715974175929942016-05-15T16:53:07.554-05:002016-05-15T16:53:07.554-05:00Well said.Well said.Gorges Smythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08777621500611603786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-83753941250010590392016-05-15T13:47:15.843-05:002016-05-15T13:47:15.843-05:00I wonder about the unintended consequences of the ...I wonder about the unintended consequences of the government's argument. Could a guy take that argument and use it to justify why he didn't register for the draft? Couldn't he just argue that at that point he was self-identifying as a woman and thus was not required to register for the draft? Also, what about federal grant\loans that were designated women only (if there are any)? Would they now be required to accept applications from individuals who self identify as women? I think the federal government may be opening themselves up on fronts that they haven't thought about yet. Once you make this argument then it's hard to deny that same argument used against you for other situations.Will McKeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02961000995176643035noreply@blogger.com