tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post342154811042998718..comments2024-03-28T15:33:17.736-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: Latest developments over the Tor imbroglioPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-19722063405609163002015-06-25T10:17:16.382-05:002015-06-25T10:17:16.382-05:00"She spoke of groups who were composed of unk..."She spoke of groups who were composed of unknown numbers of individuals who might or might not share the qualities of being sexist, racist, homophobic..."<br /><br /> That is not true. She said all the puppies were "unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic," and that we got " slate of bad-to-reprehensible works on this year’s Hugo ballot." She also said we "are calling for the end of social justice in science fiction and fantasy." She has lied about me, and I won't buy from Macmillan while she works for them.Stephen St. Ongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10477067342281594974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-89072979009065999422015-06-23T16:11:19.703-05:002015-06-23T16:11:19.703-05:00I'm in on the boycott. It'll be sad to no...I'm in on the boycott. It'll be sad to not buy Sanderson's books, but, I'll get over it.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-50928813777010354192015-06-23T14:17:37.566-05:002015-06-23T14:17:37.566-05:00I'm sure you've come to this conclusion yo...I'm sure you've come to this conclusion yourself, Peter, and I'm equally sure you've taken appropriate precautions, but I still feel it is worth noting that the whole "ZOMG, the boycotters could be VIOLENT!" schtick could very well end in people being SWATted. I like to think the situation can remain civil and confined to the written word, but history has shown that such radical folks don't always play by the rules. Linogehttp://www.wallsofthecity.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-66306490449042335542015-06-23T11:57:31.199-05:002015-06-23T11:57:31.199-05:00Peter: Stand your ground, and don't let the tr...Peter: Stand your ground, and don't let the trolls distract you from the mission. It's a deliberate strategy: derail a discussion by invoking Vox Day, no matter how off-topic he might be, which in this case would be completely.<br /><br />It's just nuts. I've been in SF fandom for 42 years now and I've never seen anything even remotely like this. A few weeks back I was called a moral coward on one of my Facebook posts, simply for refusing to condemn Vox, when I barely knew who he was. And, as in this case, the post had nothing whatsoever to do with Vox. Vox Day has become a shibboleth: You <i>must</i> condemn him on command, or it's into the Outer Darkness with you.<br /><br />I'm a retired book publisher, albeit tech books rather than fiction. If I were Macmillan corporate management, I would put Tor up for sale right now, get the best price I could for it, and wash my hands of this endless cultural warfare. Tor is a microscopic part of Macmillan; Macmillan wouldn't even know they were gone, which is one reason little action has been taken thus far. A smaller, hungrier publishing group could make Tor staff stick to the knitting, and the imprint would be immeasurably better for it.<br /><br />I'm not calling for anyone's dismissal. But as I've said elsewhere, in almost any other publishing company (including my own) staff who posted comments like the ones we've seen from Tor would be gone before the afternoon was over.Jeff Duntemannhttp://www.contrapositivediary.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-23297733739191999182015-06-23T08:37:09.182-05:002015-06-23T08:37:09.182-05:00Peter, long time lurker, and love your books, so I...Peter, long time lurker, and love your books, so I thought I would pass on a quick thought.<br /><br />Given how many people are still unaware of the boycot and at some point they may try to find some information on it you may want to set up a separate landing page, or website, that acts as a central clearinghouse for all the information.<br /><br />And my couple of books a month habit is going anywhere but TOR. <br /><br />BAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-6500753172106370942015-06-23T00:50:27.263-05:002015-06-23T00:50:27.263-05:00It has been interesting to watch... And they are N...It has been interesting to watch... And they are NOT SJWs... They are SJBs... Bullies... plain and simple...Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-65025909109199947002015-06-22T20:43:12.635-05:002015-06-22T20:43:12.635-05:00I agree with Peter O, I see Moshe deleting that an...I agree with Peter O, I see Moshe deleting that and other threads as Tor (or more probably MacMillan) putting their foot down about the actual rules the company has.kamas716https://westfargomusings.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-87063306291241822042015-06-22T18:44:59.146-05:002015-06-22T18:44:59.146-05:00Thanks Peter
Support from the dry NorthwestThanks Peter<br /><br />Support from the dry NorthwestAngus Trimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-27812926962663874362015-06-22T18:38:41.158-05:002015-06-22T18:38:41.158-05:00the offence comes not from your philosophy as a wh...<b>the offence comes not from your philosophy as a whole but specifically in your statements which imply that mixed-race relationships can only ever be the product of a media campaign, not for any reason which creates "ordinary" relationships.</b><br /><br />Didn't intend to imply that nor do I believe that. Both of the mixed-race relationships that produced me long preceded the current interracial propaganda campaign, after all. I expect some current relationships are the result of the campaign and others are not.<br /><br />The campaign is pretty ridiculous in the UK. I recently saw a commercial in which every single couple was interracial. Not a single BB, WW, or AA couple. The funny thing is that the UK doesn't have all that many black actors, so you occasionally see the same guy playing the black husband to different white women.<br /><br />VDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11980087444909322208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-41638141459663090722015-06-22T18:10:10.874-05:002015-06-22T18:10:10.874-05:00Clamps troll is Clamps.
Concern troll is concern...Clamps troll is Clamps. <br /><br />Concern troll is concerned.<br /><br />Dismissal troll is dismissing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-51171707894318278562015-06-22T17:37:24.321-05:002015-06-22T17:37:24.321-05:00Anderyn, I refer you to my open letter to Mr. Dohe...Anderyn, I refer you to my open letter to Mr. Doherty of Tor:<br /><br />http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2015/06/an-open-letter-to-tom-doherty-of-tor.html<br /><br />I believe it answers all of your questions.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-2889565323128942572015-06-22T17:27:38.899-05:002015-06-22T17:27:38.899-05:00So one thing I must ask you, and I am genuinely cu...So one thing I must ask you, and I am genuinely curious--- how did Irene Gallo's statement insult you in specific and particular? She spoke of groups who were composed of unknown numbers of individuals who might or might not share the qualities of being sexist, racist, homophobic.... but that the spokesmen of the groups certainly were/are. To me, that's not insulting anyone who is just a reader nor anyone who is just a writer.... you have to identify yourself as a Sad or Rabid Puppy before any possible insult could be taken and even then, it is pretty clear to me that she wasn't thinking primarily of the rank and file. <br /><br />As a Vile Faceless Minion, I am puzzled by this. I was not insulted. I am not insulted by anyone's opinion who is not a friend or relative, because that person does not know me. anderynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00039924601338420456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-38366488491167404512015-06-22T16:40:27.248-05:002015-06-22T16:40:27.248-05:00@Anon You're either trolling or you're not...@Anon You're either trolling or you're not reading. Peter has declared his own boycott with a slightly different set of conditions to VD. One has asked for resignations and the other has not. The two are cooperating, which tends to be a good idea when you have a common goal. Remember how Russia was the enemy, then we became friends because Nazi Germany was a really big problem that needed solving, and then we went back to being enemies? I don't think that Stalin's crimes make Hitler's crimes any less important, and I don't think that sharing a common enemy automatically means we have to agree with each other on all points.m4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-28460403944802279212015-06-22T15:22:28.008-05:002015-06-22T15:22:28.008-05:00You do realize that the boycott is VD's thing,...You do realize that the boycott is VD's thing, do you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-22889475583979065032015-06-22T15:03:47.717-05:002015-06-22T15:03:47.717-05:00@VD Nice of you to make an appearance. I disagree ...@VD Nice of you to make an appearance. I disagree somewhat with your opinion as a whole (as mentioned above), but the offence comes not from your philosophy as a whole but specifically in your statements which imply that mixed-race relationships can only ever be the product of a media campaign, not for any reason which creates "ordinary" relationships.<br /><br />I disagree on two other points - the overall sentiment that normalisation of interracial relationships is a bad thing, and that it is reasonable to be offended at being refused in favour of an interracial relationship than of one of the same race.<br /><br />You can be a jealous murderer without being racist, and you're just as much an idiot.<br /><br />However, all this has nothing to do with TOR, as just about everyone here has pointed out. If you have a problem with VD, take it up with VD. If you have a problem with TOR, take it up with TOR.m4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-33574656668734595632015-06-22T13:40:18.257-05:002015-06-22T13:40:18.257-05:00How is that out of context? That's the entire ...How is that out of context? That's the entire post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-6372136514058818082015-06-22T12:09:17.271-05:002015-06-22T12:09:17.271-05:00He's also not directly insul- Ok, so he's ...<b> He's also not directly insul- Ok, so he's insulting pretty much everyone involved in a mixed-race relationship (also known as "a relationship"), and if he did this within arm's length or talking to anyone I know, I'd probably have something to say about it.</b><br /><br />As someone who is the product of two mixed-race relationships, I daresay I know considerably more about the consequences of mixed-race relationships than anyone who might happen to be in one. And everything I said is absolutely true, whether anyone likes to hear it or not.<br /><br />But as several commenters have correctly pointed out, none of that has anything to with the unprofessional behavior of Tor's senior employees or the Tor boycott.<br /><br />And yes, the comment is merely Andrew Marston engaging in yet another attempt to stir up trouble.VDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11980087444909322208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-56502338109732953282015-06-22T11:28:03.899-05:002015-06-22T11:28:03.899-05:00Actually, I view Moshe's deletion as TOR/Macmi...Actually, I view Moshe's deletion as TOR/Macmillian actually ENFORCING the new social policy. He obviously got it pointed out that saying it's his own views, then going and still speaking in the royal we when talking about TOR isn't exactly Kosher. <br />So while they're still lacking in the PR response department, I think the internal policing is actually coming in effect. Peter Ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04842335517662996536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-1561326768273336462015-06-22T11:05:29.164-05:002015-06-22T11:05:29.164-05:00The behavior and reactions of the SJWs is the same...The behavior and reactions of the SJWs is the same tiresome, boring, hyperventilating "save the world" self-assured and self-centered narcissistic blather you'd expect from tweeners, and it would be easy to dismiss it as irrational non sequiturs. <br /><br />BUT.... :-)<br /><br />Those sort of people are the foot-solders of every totalitarian regime of the 20th C that collectively slaughtered more than a hundred million of their own people, all the while sleeping well at night assured they saving the world from bad people. We laugh at them at our peril. They are like the tiny yapping dog that couldn't bite through our jeans, and can in reality can barely even scratch our skin... but is rabid, and will cause a mass panic and huge over-reaction among all the "intelligentsia" looking on, who don't want to simply put the darn critter down because it looks so cute.Rolfhttp://www.thestarscameback.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-81299191563671255102015-06-22T11:01:15.299-05:002015-06-22T11:01:15.299-05:00@snowcrash
They sell books, they don't sell m...@snowcrash<br /><br />They sell books, they don't sell <i>me</i> books. A subtle difference, granted, but I take considerably more offence when it relates to someone I actually do business with.m4noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-66988062797611581222015-06-22T09:42:16.699-05:002015-06-22T09:42:16.699-05:00Anonymous sounds an awful lot like one of Vox'...Anonymous sounds an awful lot like one of Vox's online stalkers. There's one in particular who really hates him, and goes out of his way to put out of context quotes in every thread he can find that discusses Vox. It got so bad that the police in the stalker's area thanked Vox for bringing him to their attention when they brought him in for violating state Internet Trolling laws.<br /><br />On topic:<br /><br />Peter,<br /><br />Thanks for sticking your neck out and speaking out against what is going on there. I feel like these are people who didn't learn basic manners from Mom or the Kindergarten teacher. We all work with people we sometimes dislike (or even hate). Adults keep their mouths shut and don't attack the people they are trying to do business with. Little kids whine until they get their way or someone disciplines the whining out of them. <br /><br />We are dealing with a handful intellectual and emotional children at Tor. AVnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-56512410125028151112015-06-22T09:36:17.480-05:002015-06-22T09:36:17.480-05:00@m4: Ok, so Vox is an idiot. That doesn't do h...@m4: <i>Ok, so Vox is an idiot. That doesn't do him any favours, but then he's not a senior member of staff at a publishing house that is trying to sell me books. </i><br /><br />Ummm, actually, Day is the founder and lead editor of the publisher Castalia House, which has eleven items on the Hugo ballot this year. Coincidentally, Castalia also had eleven items on the Rabid Puppy slate (and at least two in the Sad Puppy slate IIRC)snowcrashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-50170685780498188002015-06-22T09:34:53.546-05:002015-06-22T09:34:53.546-05:00Anon@June 22, 2015 at 7:01 AM
Failed attempt at d...<i>Anon@June 22, 2015 at 7:01 AM</i><br /><br />Failed attempt at distraction/derailing from demonstrable pro-TOR lie is failed.<br /><br />Is that it, then? Is that all you've got?kent18noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-52990796752154853472015-06-22T09:22:43.940-05:002015-06-22T09:22:43.940-05:00SJW's have been exposed for what they are acro...SJW's have been exposed for what they are across the social spectrum and most people utterly reject them. They can no longer do their damage from the shadows. I think their hysterical vitriol is a sign of desperation. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-83331464785229055432015-06-22T09:06:15.363-05:002015-06-22T09:06:15.363-05:00Ok, so Vox is an idiot. That doesn't do him an...Ok, so Vox is an idiot. That doesn't do him any favours, but then he's not a senior member of staff at a publishing house that is trying to sell me books. He's also not directly insul- Ok, so he's insulting pretty much everyone involved in a mixed-race relationship (also known as "a relationship"), and if he did this within arm's length or talking to anyone I know, I'd probably have something to say about it. As it stands, not my monkey, not my circus.<br /><br />By all means, voice your opinion that he's stupid, but that doesn't excuse TOR of their BS. For now let's hang Hitler, we can worry about almost going to war against Stalin later...m4noreply@blogger.com