tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post5117236818840402111..comments2024-03-28T19:58:31.110-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: The ammo debate rears its head again . . .Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-64500156548754962402019-05-23T15:11:57.450-05:002019-05-23T15:11:57.450-05:00Antibubba:
You have to match the twist rate to th...Antibubba:<br /><br />You have to match the twist rate to the bullet weight. In 5.56, that was the original 55gr at ~1in12". You can spin it faster, but you can't spin a heavier bullet slower, or it has insufficient stability to work at all. The heavier bullets in this caliber tend to drill .22 caliber holes through humans, when spun at the correct rate they require.<br /><br />The Army went from 12" to 9" to 7". A potential problem is that spinning a light bullet too fast can cause it to fragment in flight, due to lack of strength. I don't think this is a current problem with standard 55gr .mil ball ammo in the 7" rate.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-2928308863782888972019-05-23T08:59:08.997-05:002019-05-23T08:59:08.997-05:00So for best stopping power, a heavier bullet with ...So for best stopping power, a heavier bullet with a slower twist? What twist?Antibubbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10194983440707702769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-64244485870584377722019-05-23T07:18:24.232-05:002019-05-23T07:18:24.232-05:00J T Block, you nailed it. I read the entire 1970&...J T Block, you nailed it. I read the entire 1970's era report on the development of the M-16 and field issues in Vietnam. The US Army had/has a huge Not Invented Here bias. If they didn't build it, it is insufficient. And they broke the design that the Air Force loved in '62 with all the cold weather, longer pressure curve powder and bullet weights, twist rate nonsense.STxARhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04588850178293194825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-90249225924514683572019-05-23T02:00:25.633-05:002019-05-23T02:00:25.633-05:00J T Block:
The original ammo worked well with a s...J T Block:<br /><br />The original ammo worked well with a slow twist rate, but the idiots in the puzzle palace and ancillary depts wanted more range in colder climates, so they mandated a faster rate that mostly eliminated the very effective tumbling/fragmenting of the original bullet. <br />They kept adding more bullet weight and faster twist rates, and then wanted shorter barrels, which gives us the current mess.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85484535064848043792019-05-23T00:40:06.820-05:002019-05-23T00:40:06.820-05:00The military adopted the 5.56 for it's woundin...The military adopted the 5.56 for it's wounding affect, not it's lethality, the idea being you tie up three men, the one shot and at least two to haul his butt off the line to triage. This didn't take enemies such as IS IS into account, who are as likely as not to send a wounded comrade to Paradise to collect his 72 Virginian's. As for ball, the 55 grain M-193 was apt to tumble and fragment, if it was getting the full velocity of a 20" barrel.<br />The shorter barrels now common, and the 64 gr. pills simply drill thru, like an ice pick, dumping little energy in said gomer. <br />Still, it beats the snot out of harsh language... Or so I'm told.John T. Blockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10878974023699762981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-2023423661935164822019-05-22T23:53:57.812-05:002019-05-22T23:53:57.812-05:00first rule , bring a gun,
i am ambivilant on the ...first rule , bring a gun,<br /><br />i am ambivilant on the ammo wars. not finding a participant willing to jump in front of the denigrated ammo when fired.<br /><br />rms/parms/pahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02361919952391778550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-14051218172951099712019-05-22T19:14:48.258-05:002019-05-22T19:14:48.258-05:00I prefer my 8 gauge ( .815 ) muzzle loading rifle....I prefer my 8 gauge ( .815 ) muzzle loading rifle.<br /><br />Yes, I compromised with the times, and had the bore rifled.<br /><br />If it ain't at least .80" across, it's a poodle shooter.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-54401766534591543472019-05-22T18:54:35.700-05:002019-05-22T18:54:35.700-05:00.308 and .45 cals are great.....until you have to ....308 and .45 cals are great.....until you have to hump all that extra weight 10, 15, 20 miles...then they suck. weight is pain.<br />the best weapon is the one in your hands, and the best caliber is the one in your weapon.<br />one shot, one kill?? fine you eliminated one enemy. a shot to the knee eliminates one enemy, plus at least one, maybe two or three, that carry him to the aid station. (dosn't work with barbarians who leave their wounded on the field to fend for themselves, or shoot them so they can't be interrogated)cannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09052348819251089625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-78661311958392215492019-05-22T16:53:01.194-05:002019-05-22T16:53:01.194-05:00Well, to toss my feelings into the situation, all ...Well, to toss my feelings into the situation, all the bullet advances that make the Wunder9 so great also make the .40, .45, .380, .38 etc great. So, well, yeah. Shoot what you want, it's all great out there with super bullet designs.<br /><br />Now firing FMJ? Shot placement, and maybe a followup. Considering how many people have been slabbed by the lowly .22LR and other mini-calibers, even the much poo-pooed .25, FMJ isn't bad, if that's all you have. So you may have to shoot twice or more.<br /><br />A crappy caliber, or bullet, or gun (as long as it shoots and hits) is still far superior to not being able to defend oneself at all.Beanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293778848879361153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-85816460364877090232019-05-22T15:44:04.172-05:002019-05-22T15:44:04.172-05:00Forgot to mention it was 5.56 in an AR type carbin...Forgot to mention it was 5.56 in an AR type carbine or rifle.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-49299703687563649292019-05-22T15:41:57.332-05:002019-05-22T15:41:57.332-05:00I'm reminded of an AAR by a three letter agent...I'm reminded of an AAR by a three letter agent that was sent to the Sandbox. He was attached to a SEAL/SOF type group that quickly got sent to clean out a compound in the hinterlands. He wasn't vetted yet, so they told him to just go watch the back wall of the compound while the group made entry at night.<br /><br />Intelligence missed the fact there was a door hidden in a depression. Two armed persons suddenly appeared, so he shot them with his agency issued weapon and hollow tip ammo. Each dropped so fast he wasn't able to get a second hit on them. Shortly after, a second pair appeared, with the same results.<br /><br />Eventually others from the group arrived to remonstrate with him about his unnecessary firing of a weapon, as they had done no shooting. He pointed them toward the wall, where the four bodies were found piled up at the bottom of the depression in front of the door. They were shocked that it only took one shot for each of them.<br /><br />IIRC, this was in SOF Mag, but I'm not positive at this point.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-31278056779317068162019-05-22T14:34:03.329-05:002019-05-22T14:34:03.329-05:00The guy is an ignorant jack@$$ (sorry to break a b...The guy is an ignorant jack@$$ (sorry to break a blog standard, Peter, but there it is).<br /><br />1) He's been an EMT for 10 years.<br />Say it with me:<br /><i>He's been an EMT for 10 years.</i><br />WT*?<br />Now look, I love EMTs (I started out as one, back in the misty past), but if you settled at being the equivalent of the French fry timer at McDonald's <i>for ten years</i> instead of as a stop on your way up the career ladder, let me be the first one to tell you Houston, you've got a problem.<br /><br />2) What he gets is so small as to be immeasurable with existing instrumentation.<br />People (and the cops) don't call 9-1-1 for people who are DRT.<br />So he'll virtually <i>never</i> see the person with a fatal wound that scored a killing hit, because they called the cops and coroner, and not a taxi driver with an oxygen tank.<br />Color me shocked.<br /><br />3) I've seen people brought in dead, who stayed that way, from one gunshot, both with 9mm and 5.56/.223.<br />More than I like to count.<br />Because sometimes, the paramedics will bring in traumatic full arrests who were DRT, because they didn't want to get attacked by the family for "not doing anything" for a guy who bled out in ten pumps, after hitting the ground immediately, 10 minutes before they (and the EMTs) arrived, even though it's all futile efforts.<br /><br />Anyone so hamstrung by such stupidity is not an article for information, it's a punching bag looking for a dose of ridicule.<br />I'm surprised anyone would post the original article, but that just shows you why the IQ graph is a bell curve: for everyone with a 120, there's someone out there with a corresponding 80.<br /><br />The referenced OP is today's 80-IQ winner.<br />QEDAesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-10312539844080372782019-05-22T11:23:06.666-05:002019-05-22T11:23:06.666-05:00Back right after 911 our little airport where my w...Back right after 911 our little airport where my wife worked had a contingent of National Guard. She heard more than one gripe from the troops that since they carried Nato ID they had to stick with ball ammo for their 9mm's. Personally my carry gun is a .357 mag that I load 180 gr hard cast around home and 125 gr hollow points for the city. Much more likely to open the door or have it pushed in by a bear at home but the 180would probably exit the back of a 2 legged atacker. I have a marlin carbine in the same caliber for hunting and defense.Howard Brewihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17828388973685184730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-73667911400892272762019-05-22T10:48:17.835-05:002019-05-22T10:48:17.835-05:00Concur with LL. And shot placement COUNTS as much ...Concur with LL. And shot placement COUNTS as much or more than the round fired!Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-30152770340156538392019-05-22T10:31:20.843-05:002019-05-22T10:31:20.843-05:00I'm not a huge fan of 5.56mm as a man-stopper,...I'm not a huge fan of 5.56mm as a man-stopper, but it's a good varmint round. I've seen similar results with 9 mm (including high expansion rounds) against humans as those reported (above). I carry a revolver with .454 Casull high expansion rounds these days and am confident that the results would be more favorable than traditional automatic cartridges, though I am not taking the weapon into combat where I need several redundant magazines loaded and handy.<br /><br />It has been reported that the SEAL Teams don't carry the 5.56 cartridge/rifle and that's not the case. A lot depends on mission and load-out. Traditionally the Teams favor the 7.62 and the .45 ACP. In fact, there was a time when they were the only outfit that I know of in the US Military that carried (whatever they wanted) those rifles/options.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05538854359365988863noreply@blogger.com