tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post788138550440196591..comments2024-03-28T11:00:59.091-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: Boeing's answer to the 737 Max problems: more automation?Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-1692881320974966462020-01-14T10:03:25.494-06:002020-01-14T10:03:25.494-06:00This is bad...
Boeing dodged Lion airs request fo...This is bad...<br /><br />Boeing dodged Lion airs request for a flight simulator.<br /><br />https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/boeing-refused-request-more-737-max-pilot-training-deadly-crashRay - SoCalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293232996007277071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-71645200463384203112020-01-11T13:30:41.733-06:002020-01-11T13:30:41.733-06:00This is why the Navy and AF have simulators to tea...This is why the Navy and AF have simulators to teach missile crew members what to do, and why they must do it, and how easy for things to go bad on them.Sam L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00996809377798862214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-90748758329812186062020-01-11T07:12:04.592-06:002020-01-11T07:12:04.592-06:00Boeing is toast. If the MAX situation doesn't ...Boeing is toast. If the MAX situation doesn't kill it, their deal with China will certainly finish them off. Those McD-Douglas office manager types in Chicago, being only paper shufflers without any technical background, have Boeing assisting China in learning how to build airliners and set up their own production facilities, supposedly for internal China use. <br /><br />Those idiots have no idea that that knowledge is a large part of what makes Boeing have any business value. Once China gets up to speed, they can kiss goodbye any future world sales of aircraft. China will be able to undersell Boeing EVERYWHERE. Fools to the max. <br /><br />Those guys are so stupid, they didn't do any studies of previous Chinese ventures that other companies have attempted. The fact is, that if you have them build a product, you have then GIVEN them your future business prospects.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722792638246578812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-72882115571413793862020-01-11T05:46:41.137-06:002020-01-11T05:46:41.137-06:00A problem that is alluded to but not quite directl...A problem that is alluded to but not quite directly stated is that of proficiency in hand flying, which is a problem even among 1st world pilots. I completely agree with everything Peter has said, and what McChuck has said, especially having watched 3rd world pilots in their training. I was a missionary pilot in Africa for 10 years, a flight instructor, and am currently assistant chief pilot at a large aerial work company. All that to say I have direct experience in this subject, though not direct experience with the 737 other than as a passenger.<br /><br />The reliance on automation robs a pilot of hand flying skills, necessary to overcome situations in which the automation proves either sub-optimal or actively hazardous. Pilots first of all want to defer to the automation, partly because it's normal to use it. Also because it's easier. (Sorry other pilots but we tend to be a lazy bunch). Flying is, like shooting, a perishable skill. It comes back quickly with training, but not quickly enough in an emergency. And if it was never developed in the first place, such as is often the case in the 3rd world,... well. <br /><br />You might checkout code7700.com for further reading on the subject. Mr Albright is a very good author and has lots, LOTS of information on the subject. And lots of experience to back up what he says, and has done lots of research to back up the experience. His article on the Asiana 214 crash is quite good and, I think, has bearing on the 737max situation. You can find it at http://code7700.com/case_study_asiana_airlines_214.htmBrother PIlothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12684845882970696363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-66254146667584903272020-01-10T18:58:56.382-06:002020-01-10T18:58:56.382-06:00Boeing needs to automate their corporate leadershi...Boeing needs to automate their corporate leadership.<br /><i>That's</i> where most of their problems are found.Aesophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07834464741531503378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-7104365509044416882020-01-10T16:17:09.652-06:002020-01-10T16:17:09.652-06:00I love how "the more globally diverse group o...I love how "the more globally diverse group of pilots now flying its planes" has become the plausibly deniable, politically correct way of saying "the more unintelligent group of third-worlders now flying its planes".Johnnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03986359390167317195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-48280887149008287522020-01-10T14:52:02.885-06:002020-01-10T14:52:02.885-06:00@Ray, the most horrifying quotes from the Boeing i...@Ray, the most horrifying quotes from the Boeing internal docs (I read on the BBC) were one Boeing guy asking another if he'd let his family fly on a MAX. The replay: "No"Borepatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029434172945099693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-54073035475108023842020-01-10T14:31:44.088-06:002020-01-10T14:31:44.088-06:00Today's Boeing is not the Boeing we knew of yo...Today's Boeing is not the Boeing we knew of yore; when the McDonnell-Douglas "merger" went through, it was the McDonnell-Douglas "suits" who wound up running the company. Being from the Northwest, I knew a bunch of old-school Boeing types who were appalled at the way the new McDonnell-Douglas corporate culture took over and started weaseling its way into every nook and cranny of the old Boeing. That process has been at the root of all of Boeing's problems, from the bribery scandal on down to this one.<br /><br />Boeing is dead. The old company exists only in the memories of the retirees, and popular imagination. What exists now is a reanimated zombie of McDonnell-Douglas, with all of its old vices perpetuated forward under a new name.<br /><br />McDonnell-Douglas pulled off a corporate Cordyceps takeover, and we're just now seeing where that is taking the company--Which isn't anywhere good. Boeing is dead, and all that's remaining is the husk filled with Cordyceps spores.takirkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01228716337489374348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-91476752329493217992020-01-10T14:17:00.547-06:002020-01-10T14:17:00.547-06:00NY Times just published this.
Boeing Employees M...NY Times just published this.<br /><br /><br /><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes" rel="nofollow">Boeing Employees Mocked F.A.A. and ‘Clowns’ Who Designed 737 Max</a> NY Times, Jan. 9th<br /><br />Amazing quote from a Boeing Employee:<br /><br />“This airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys,”Ray - SoCalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293232996007277071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-54633596496948946952020-01-10T13:00:56.123-06:002020-01-10T13:00:56.123-06:00Nothing will ever be foolproof because fools are t...Nothing will ever be foolproof because fools are too ingenious. <br /><br />That should be tattooed on on the back of every engineer and their bosses hands at Boeing. Shermhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07098953206824247173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-17406059256879994572020-01-10T11:29:12.289-06:002020-01-10T11:29:12.289-06:00As a fictional example based on real events, I fou...As a fictional example based on real events, I found the movie Sully to be fascinating. Based on the Hudson river set down of a passenger jet by Captain Sullenberg after bird strikes took out both engines.<br />In particular, the movie went into detail over the investigation and the attempt to second guess the captain's decision to set the plane down in the river rather than attempt alternate landing strips. <br />Spoiler alert, after proper setup and consideration for the time required for problem analysis, simulations proved that the river landing was the only option that did not result in a land crash and probable loss of life.Uncle Larhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04008207593205949098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-38632307555686223912020-01-10T10:11:41.386-06:002020-01-10T10:11:41.386-06:00Language is also a major issue. 'Technical com...Language is also a major issue. 'Technical competence' in English is NOT the same as actually understanding English. Having flown all over the world, there are many places where if you deviate even slightly from the 'script', you end up with dead air, or the controller or pilot questioning what was said. The same is true for warnings and alerts. If you cannot read English, warning and alert cues that scroll across the screen are so much garbage... sigh... Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-36466667985753019162020-01-10T09:30:10.861-06:002020-01-10T09:30:10.861-06:00Boeing certified the airplane as just another 737 ...Boeing certified the airplane as just another 737 with minimum training needed to save development time and cost, but the new bigger engines changed the characteristics. <br /><br />Outsourcing the real time software development.<br /><br />Changing the culture from one focused on safety to one of cost. <br /><br />Moving the headquarters to Chicago. <br /><br />Depending on 1 sensor with no redundancy.<br /><br />Making safety features an upgrade.<br /><br />And Boeing is paying the price for their short sightedness. 737 fiasco is only one of several recent fiascos.Ray - SoCalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293232996007277071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-40406988796635722712020-01-10T09:22:21.355-06:002020-01-10T09:22:21.355-06:00The blancoliro youtube channel has a long series o...The blancoliro youtube channel has a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/blancolirio/search?query=737-max" rel="nofollow">long series of videos</a> that covers the facts that are available.<br />Author is a 777 pilot who was a 737 pilot for many years, along with lots of other experience including Air Force instructor <br />and Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic certification and experience. You can't find a better, more comprehensive<br />source on the subject.<br /><br />My opinion after watching all those is that the crashes were caused by the poor system design but were preventable by<br />pilots with adequate training (as someone else mentioned re: sim time). <br /><br />The move to more automation by Boeing would leave them far short of the level that Airbus has already reached, where pilots<br />don't so much fly the plane, rather they issue instructions to the computer which then flies the plane. This has contributed to<br />the practice adopted by airlines in less wealthy parts of the world to place passenger jets in the hands of pilots that have very<br />little experience. When you are flying an Airbus that often does not matter because the pilot cannot override the computer.<br />When flying a Boeing it often does matter because the pilot needs to remain in charge and disable the automation when it is<br />suboptimal.<br /><br />However, the MCAS system had a built in crash mode, and it is not easy for a pilot to recognize when it has happened and know<br />what to do to disable it. So yes, better training matters, but the planes crashed themselves, it wasn't the pilots that caused it.stratonacreoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677348703723801138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-78617998511392581362020-01-10T08:52:32.226-06:002020-01-10T08:52:32.226-06:00Automation is only as good as the people who wrote...Automation is only as good as the people who wrote it and those who tested it, hopefully NOT the same people. Boeing replaced their experienced IT staff with $12.50/hour staff from India (NCL, I believe) in exchange for a deal with an Indian airline.<br /><br />In my 40 years in IT, I have worked with Indian IT staff extensively. When they are good, they are very, very good but, and it's a big but, many from todays colleges are incapable of thinking problems through. For example, if you ask them how many values a light switch can have, the common answer is 'Two. On and off'. The correct answer in IT is 'Three. On, Off and something else'. Failing to account for that 'something else' is what leads to these kind of problems. BadFroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00051102067870927677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-7402455982348953702020-01-10T08:32:45.406-06:002020-01-10T08:32:45.406-06:00The MCAS automation is what killed all those peopl...The MCAS automation is what killed all those people. The automation was fatally flawed. The answer to this is not "we'll give you more automation".Borepatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05029434172945099693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-43332431618156087572020-01-10T08:11:21.461-06:002020-01-10T08:11:21.461-06:00I have a good friend that's a commercial pilot...I have a good friend that's a commercial pilot. I asked him what he thought about the crashes after they happened. He shrugged his shoulders and said "Not enough SIM time. There's nothing wrong with the plane. Many third world airlines pilots don't spend enough time in the simulator"<br /><br />The problem isn't technical (although there were design flaws, mostly with redundancy. The real issue was marketing. They wanted to sell a plane under the guise of not having to train your pilots - "It's the same as any 737!". MCAS is a software solution to make the plane feel like an older model.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-77204449616838896972020-01-10T06:55:25.916-06:002020-01-10T06:55:25.916-06:00You also have the third world problem of status be...You also have the third world problem of status being everything. How does one get to be a pilot? Not by competence, but by who's relative you are. Ties are resolved by bribery. Ability to do the job figures nowhere in the process.McChuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10243337792601085456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-80440970446612536102020-01-10T06:43:16.237-06:002020-01-10T06:43:16.237-06:00While this is obvious to anyone who has watched th...While this is obvious to anyone who has watched third-world oopie-doopies try to imitate proficient Western professionals, it will be buried by political correctness and these crashes blamed on failed technology. gwalchmai munnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783219023207425060noreply@blogger.com