tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post8940484881217730234..comments2024-03-28T05:04:12.280-05:00Comments on Bayou Renaissance Man: Weekend Wings #39: South Africa's "Franken-Mirages", Part 1 of 3Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-50364648785883363312017-12-14T10:36:33.235-06:002017-12-14T10:36:33.235-06:00I loved this series of posts- it's a fascinati...I loved this series of posts- it's a fascinating look into a period and place most Americans dismiss as "bad."<br /><br />And today, I came across some interesting news: Cheetahs may be coming to America to fly!<br /><br />http://www.denel.co.za/press-article/-Cheetahs-Take-To-The-Skies-Again-In-America/179<br /><br />Interestingly, at War is Boring writer Robert Beckhausen says "It’s not clear whether any Cheetahs saw combat — and available sources indicate they didn’t." but he does not specify whether that was in the air-to-air or strike role.<br /><br />More information here at this blog, too: http://thebadpilotsblog.blogspot.com/2015/07/rare-aircraft-atlas-cheetah.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-80803366090600450162016-10-18T01:50:21.552-05:002016-10-18T01:50:21.552-05:00Don't mean to be picky, but no one flew alongs...Don't mean to be picky, but no one flew alongside the USAF in WWII, because it didn't exist (you even noted that earlier, saying it formed in '47). It was the Army Air Corps during WWII. My father was a 21 year old B-17 pilot, flying out of Eye Airfield in England, bombing Germany (mostly) during the day (the Brits bombed during the night). After the war, he flew B-47s and then B-52s for the USAF, in the Strategic Air Command (SAC).<br /><br />As a civilian (I can't recall if they re-activated his commission as a captain when he flew B-52s before), he flew missions over Cuba with the USAF out of MacDill AFB in Tampa, FL just prior to the Cuban Missile Crisis. The company he worked for (as a pilot), Sperry Rand Corp., had a division that specialized in aerial infra-red photography. My father had experience flying that equipment, so the Air Force used him to fly missions over Cuba, filming the missile sites through cloud cover and (IIRC) at night, as the missile sites did not cool as quickly as the surrounding terrain.<br /><br />Just before the embargo and crisis, he had us (mother and four kids) move back up to New York, in case MacDill was attacked by those missiles.<br />Reg Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14099612693763932005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-8320795396962653012013-09-15T11:20:56.669-05:002013-09-15T11:20:56.669-05:00Cheetah c are now part of tue Ecuadorian air force...Cheetah c are now part of tue Ecuadorian air force,we are proud of them,We have kfir c-10,also,they are about the same,but I prefer Cheetahs.greetings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-92030752450242611182013-08-20T04:41:59.842-05:002013-08-20T04:41:59.842-05:00I'd not heard of that program, I'm afraid ...I'd not heard of that program, I'm afraid - but then, in the 1970's I wasn't involved in aviation programs at all. Interesting to hear about it, though. I'll see if I can find out anything more.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-60338667825588878072013-08-19T21:06:55.471-05:002013-08-19T21:06:55.471-05:00No, this was the forerunner to that effort, or sho...No, this was the forerunner to that effort, or should I say, the initial prototype development effort. It involved a single 707 airframe and used the British pods from the SAAF Buccaneer aircraft. It was in the mid-to-late 70's. The end result was the supply of the newer 707s with IAI-produced US pods. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-6015797471019615392013-08-19T16:19:51.614-05:002013-08-19T16:19:51.614-05:00@Anonymous on 2013-08-18 at 5.19 PM: Yes, I knew a...@Anonymous on 2013-08-18 at 5.19 PM: Yes, I knew about that project, but it was the 1980's, not the 1970's, and involved an Israeli tanker conversion of civilian airframes. More details at:<br /><br />http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/aircraft/13/boeing-707-328cPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-69761729478132539692013-08-18T17:19:59.441-05:002013-08-18T17:19:59.441-05:00Peter, great writing...
I have a question for you...Peter, great writing...<br /><br />I have a question for you...do you know anything about the SA/IAI effort of modifying a Boeing 707 into a refueling tanker for the SAAF? Timeframe was the late 70's and used refueling pods initially used by SAAF Buccaneer aircraft.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-64023827748363334932012-05-26T14:49:07.672-05:002012-05-26T14:49:07.672-05:00@ Anonymous on 5/26/2012 at 12.09 p.m.: Interesti...@ Anonymous on 5/26/2012 at 12.09 p.m.: Interesting points, but I don't agree.<br /><br />The internal EW installation on the Cheetah C was also a feature of the Israeli Nammer design, as can be verified from the line drawing of the latter above. Since the Cheetah C's were based on Kfir airframes, modified in Israel, I presume the latest-model Kfirs would have had a similar fuselage extension. You're right, however, that earlier model Kfirs did not have such an extension.<br /><br />Second, the helmet-mounted sight (discussed in Weekend Wings #41) worked only with the visual-range V-series missiles, not with longer-ranged weapons such as Sparrow and AMRAAM used by USAF F-15's. I'm informed that the latter missiles, particularly when coupled with the F-15's vastly more capable radar system, were invariably successful in 'downing' (for exercise purposes) the SAAF Cheetahs. On the other hand, when the USAF F-15's were deliberately handicapped by being restricted to a visual-range-only combat scenario, that took away their long-range advantage. Even so, their AIM-9X Sidewinders were vastly more capable than the SAAF V-series missiles, and would probably have dominated in a real fight where exercise rules and restrictions are moot.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-18991872153341662212012-05-26T12:09:23.321-05:002012-05-26T12:09:23.321-05:00Hello,
Generally a good review but contains a few ...Hello,<br />Generally a good review but contains a few inaccuracies. The canards used in the Cheetah are different to the Kfir.<br />There are other differences not mentioned / realised - the Cheetah has a 58cm plug added between the air intake and cockpit to house EW systems and other avionics(easily visible when compring the Cheetah and the Kfri C10). This extra half meter addition to the length of te jet changed the centre of balance hence the different canard design.<br />As such it has for example a major advantage over say the F16 which has to use an external pod to carry EW systems because the Cheetah's EW system is internal. Therefore comparing it to a Block 30 F16 is perhaps a poor comparison. <br />A good reference is: http://img.ipmssa.za.org/index.php/knowledge-base-mainmenu-28/aircraft-mainmenu-69/153-denel-aviation-cheetah?start=1)<br /><br />Secondly it is entirely feesible that the Cheetah could defeat the F15 in ACM as the SAAF were using a helmet mounted sight for their missiles since the 1970's (the first air force in the world to use it operationally I believe - although the USAF had tested previously). At the time no USAF aircarft used a helmet mounted sight (as far as I know) so it would have been like taking a knife to gun fight (despite the disadvantage of the Cheetah engines).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-24907798930870822812011-06-18T09:48:40.552-05:002011-06-18T09:48:40.552-05:00@Old NFO: Yes, the SAAF used Avro Shackleton'...@Old NFO: Yes, the SAAF used Avro Shackleton's until the early 1980's, when they had to be retired due to reaching the end of their fatigue life. (Their wings had already been re-sparred once, and it wasn't economical to do it again.) Thereafter the long-range, armed maritime patrol mission was over for the SAAF. It used Piaggio P-166's and modified C-47's, as mentioned, to perform coastal patrols, but abandoned airborne anti-shipping and ASW missions.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595089829300831372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-53428158767446559872011-06-18T08:13:26.237-05:002011-06-18T08:13:26.237-05:00Great post Peter, I actually remember seeing an Av...Great post Peter, I actually remember seeing an Avro-Shackleton in Jo-berg in 1975 when we were down there. If I remember correctly, THAT was the maritime patrol aircraft they used. I key point you covered very well is the cross/co-development with the Israelis, they have done a LOT of this stuff with a number of different airframes! thanks!Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6244999628674918029.post-30418479494299929442011-06-18T01:45:34.713-05:002011-06-18T01:45:34.713-05:00A first-rate post and fascinating read. Obviously ...A first-rate post and fascinating read. Obviously the result of a great deal of hard work. Thanks much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com