A gentleman (?) named Jamarcus Oneal Spates was arrested by a gaggle of Houston police officers on Monday. It's not clear why so many of the officers were involved, or why they took such extreme precautions, but be that as it may . . .
On-duty uniformed officers arrived and attempted to stop the vehicle with Spates inside, the release states. HPD alleges Spates refused several commands to exit the vehicle.
The responding officers said they shot at Spates after they attempted to move toward the vehicle and saw him open the driver's door of the vehicle and extend his arm "in a shooting position," according to HPD's account. A bullet "grazed" Spates, the release said.
There's more at the link.
A bullet "grazed" Spates. One bullet. ONE SINGLE BULLET.
How many rounds were fired by all those officers to obtain just one slight, non-disabling injury to the suspect? See (and hear) for yourself.
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?????
All those bullets flying around, and the suspect was grazed by just one of them. Where, pray tell, did the rest of the bullets go? How many nearby buildings, vehicles, trees, etc. were struck as well? Oh - and what about innocent bystanders?
That's just about the most sickeningly incompetent firearms handling I've ever seen from uniformed cops. I've no idea how many rounds were fired in all, but I won't be surprised to hear it was a hundred or more . . . AND ONLY ONE STRUCK ITS TARGET, AND EVEN THEN, ONLY JUST!!!
What's the point of issuing firearms to police at all, if that's the way they're going to handle them in a crisis situation?
No handgun bullet is a very good fight-stopper compared to a rifle or shotgun. We know this. It's been common knowledge for years. However, even a handgun will stop a fight quickly enough if a bullet hits the target's central nervous system - i.e. the brain or the spine. A penetration of the heart and/or circulatory system will take a bit longer - up to 30-60 seconds for the suspect to "bleed out". However, if all the bullet does is "graze" the suspect's arm, it's not going to do one single damned thing to stop him. It may make him lose his temper, but that's about all.
(As the late, great Jeff Cooper used to say about the [infamously puny] .25 ACP round: "Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody, and he finds out about it, he may be very angry with you." Considering the lack of success of those police officers, armed with [comparatively much more powerful] 9mm handguns, shotguns and at least one AR-15 rifle, they may as well have been carrying .25 ACP pistols instead!)
I'd take away the badges of the whole lot of them, and send them all for remedial firearms training. I'd refuse to re-issue their badges unless and until they passed a truly practical, useful firearms test, such as the qualification for a basic handgun certificate from Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or equivalent shooting schools. Can't do that? Then you can't carry a gun to defend the public, because you're more of a danger to them than you are to the criminal!
Sheesh . . .
Peter
36 comments:
"How many rounds were fired by all those officers to obtain just one slight, non-disabling injury to the suspect..."
Rounds? I couldn't even get a good count of all the empty MAGAZINES on the ground after that.
My first gun (age 12) was a single shot H&R Topper in 20 ga.
Why, when my contemporaries received pumps and semi-autos for Christmas?
Well, $$ because we weren't rich, but my father had this strange theory.
If you only have one quick shot, you'll learn to hit the target.
I learned to carry two extra shells between the fingers of my left hand and became quite adept at ejecting, inserting a fresh shell, followup shots.
But I appreciate his philosophy even 57 years later.
I learned to shoot.
Not spray.
My friends never fired once, always in strings of 3.
When police swapped to semi-autos from revolvers, they gained larger magazines, then even larger.
The prevailing theory for police from what I see in videos and the news, is
MAG DUMP!!
Have a Good Day
Why were they shooting at all? The driver was doing what they commanded. He opened the door and stuck out his hand. Dopes and clowns in uniform.
I'm German, therefore I come from a different gun-culture tha the US, or specially Texas or even more "Special" Houston.... ;)
But even I learned that to only give controlled shots with the knowledge what is around and behind the target. No mag-Dumps! This comes from a total non-shooter, besides 3 decades ago when I was younger and dumper (a few 100 shots with a kk-Rifle, and one Cylinder with a .454 Casull (never again!)). If I remember correctly, even if this "Cops" shoot somebody (Irrelevant if wounded or dead)), the Responsibility is laid at the feet of the Culbrit? Wow, than it's pretty easy to shoot little Babys or old grandma, Pregnant Women, and feel no Guilt, Hmmm?
Knolli
Yet, the public is conditioned to believe that only someone wearing the right government issued authoritative costume should be allowed to carry a gun.
From the city that gave us "Dry Labbing".
Maybe a bit too harsh on this one?
Did not count the number of shots but the car took a large number of hits. The rounds hitting the windows is anyone's guess where they went. Suppressing shooting?
And it looks like the surrounding area was cleared.
The huge concern is the police car in front of the target. Was the cop inside or anywhere in that vector?
The best and the brightest.
The keystone cops.
All tatted up and on steroids for the most part, I would bet.
Multiple officers, multiple mags, and all they manage to do with that hail of gunfire is ONE GRAZE?!?!? Give them all plastic kiddy guns, and let them go direct traffic or something. I guess when you have "Qualified Immunity" you don't have to be like the rest of us and expect be held accountable for EVERY ROUND. If a private citizen did anything CLOSE to that hail of gunfire, all of the talking heads would be positively SCREAMING about it.
not to mention the question of why they were shooting to start with, or why the hell every cop on duty was allowed to respond. that level of fife comes from the top.
I've known a number of cops through the years. Some worked at it and were excellent shots. Others just qualified on a regular basis.
I am somewhat surprised that none of the "police" were injured by friendly fire, I saw what appeared to be at least one officer flagging his partner's femoral artery artery area with his finger on the trigger of a Glock. A whole new definition of "Glock Leg."
I was killing time & watched Cops Reloaded or some crap, it's like watching a comedy. They make the most simple arrest a joke. Usual takes 10 of them to arrest a dope head strung out on meth Hopefully I will never have to deal with any.
Many years ago I visited America and it might have been in Washington state that a buddy of mine lived. We went to the local range to get some shooting fun in.
While I was there he was telling me that the police would also practice their shooting at the range but that the regular civilians would inadvertently show the police up when it came to accuracy and hitting the target. So the police department naturally spent $$$ building their own range for them to practice at. True story.
I wasn't going to Houston anyway.
It's Houston folks! The perp and the cops are in the same gang.
If I had to guess, Houston is short of officers, those they hire may not be the best of their class at the academy, and of course, many are DEI hires. It's a dangerous combination for innocent bystanders.
My question to each officer would have been, what were you shooting at? The suspect, the car or something else that was not a threat. It would seem if Officer Bubba pulled the trigger the rest of the group want to join in on the fun.
I give Houston second place only because NYPD shot multiple pedestrians for one hit on a suspect.
And after all that, no gun. Just a man doing as he was told.
Philando Castile. Never forget.
For most cops, like most soldier, the gun came with the job.
Another incident that DIRECTLY displays the pathetic hiring and training standards common in "law enforcement".
"I can guarantee your safety if you step out of the vehicle and nothings in your hands."
He tries.
Nope. Nope cover's this situation, right?
Yep. One of the rare occasions that "reaching" (defined solely and exclusively by the feelings of the officer, especially when female) wasn't an (unwritten) crime that carries an immediate sentence of death. But only because the "upholders of the law" couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
If they were better shots, that imaginary gun would have gotten the man who was (again) only armed in the officers' imaginations, killed.
What a beautiful thought. /S
have any of you ever go to a range where 'cops" are shooting ? they shoot at 7 yards for the most part. yup. 7 yards. and a whole lot of them have a hard time keeping rounds on target at that range (?). back when I lived in the city, used to use a indoor range. yeah. cops where there all the time. they suck. back in the day, we went to the range every week. to keep sharp. we where taught 'point shooting" I think it was called "quick kill" back then. anyway, I still shoot that way. cops stare at you when you run the target back to the 25 yard mark. and really freak out when you shoot the center out at that range.
they also taught us to "double tap" your target.
that alone freaked out a shit load of cops.
so, yeah. cops not hitting anything is nothing new to me. most of them have no idea how many rounds they fired either. the range guys at FT. Campbell would not have been impressed by these clowns.
here the thing, under stress, you only EVER be able to do 50% of what you do when your training. and that is WHY you must train every day to be at your best.
Let's get serious.
To apply to be a cop, show up with an MMA credential, an IDPA or IPSC ranking, then we'll figure out if you're smart enough to do all that "civil liberties" and "professional demeanor" stuff.
If you want to do SWAT, start with getting an NRA rifle, shotgun and pistol instructors credential. Nothing reinforces practical knowledge like having to teach it. Then you'll work tactics and teamwork.
Unbelievable! I wish I had all of those rounds to shoot at the range. And that is just the place these police should spend more time and maybe work on their tactics some too.
Jeffery in Alabama
The task force that I ran (back when) interfaced with Houston PD. So color me unsurprised. I worked with two detectives at HPD who were excellent. But only two. Their officers used to guard illegal operations in uniform with department cars "when off-duty". You can tap me for stories of actual incidents when next we meet. (or on the 'other side' if we don't meet again until then)
This is a discussion I often have with a freind who currently is a firearms instructor at the State Academy. I am also a former instructor. The current doctrine seems to be "mag dump" and reload.
When I taught I preached that every round down range was a potential liability and you should hit what you aimed at, i.e. the threat.
I got yelled at by the State's Attorney for saying "two to the body,one to the head , always make sure the bad guy is dead"..
Different days I guess.
Additional "thoughts".
Only one or two "officers" with a patrol rifle should be cleared to fire and then only by command.
Not impressed by the "marksmanship" exhibited.
I saw several sidearms with optical sights and they still couldn't hit anything intended.
Pathetic
I counted at least 8 mags, plus one AR mag, so 8x17= 136, plus 30 equals at least 166 rounds sigh...
Sympathetic reflex - how many of them hunt ? Think about it... they'd all starve ! Extrapolate how many need to show up to enforce the dark side that's pending -
So besides losing mags and maybe a pistol, to the right on the ground at about 2:43, did he even have a gun? You can't see squat from that video. It was probly just his hand. Pray they Never stop you for anything.
I suspect this is a chain of events:
First, the officers have probably only shot on the range. So the only situation is when they're fairly calm. Even if they've used e.g. timed events, that still has calm surrounding it - you can get in the mindset, do the thing, then go calm down again.
Then, for some reason they wanted *lots* of officers at the scene. Which would translate to "This is a really dangerous situation" in the minds of the officers. So they're probably hyped up as a result.
So it looks like really suboptimal handling of the situation all the way around. I can only hope the after-action report for this calls these out. Both the officers and likely whoever demanded this level of response have some more training to do.
You Ok Peter?
Sunday without a music posting?
Two days quiet?
Hope you and yours are OK.
I counted 2.75 shots. Right at the national average. What a bunch of pansies…..
Every single one of those scumbags checked carefully to make sure that there was nobody beyond the target before they just blew thru every round they had in the gun.
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