Monday, May 6, 2024

When helping others may be hazardous to your freedom

 

Friend of the blog Lawdog has written an emotive and (I think) very important article titled "Meditations On Duty".  Here are a few excerpts.


Every day we are bombarded with news articles about District Attorneys campaigning for “No bail requirements”, “Reduced sentencing”, “Alternate sentencing”, all of which appears — in some cases outrighted stated — to give felons and habitual criminals a leg up.

We are continually shown footage of riots in major cities and at universities where the rioters arsonists, and violent thugs are treated with kid gloves.

Just or otherwise, there is a very definite perception that District Attorneys would much rather throw the book at someone with no previous criminal history, while the felons and violent thugs get deals.

On the other paw, for a man to be even hinted at any variety of sexual offence, whether it be harassment or outright rape, is to be guilty until proven innocent.

And to certain parts of the howling Internet mobs you can never be innocent — and they will make it a crusade to destroy your life.

. . .

I find myself in a position that I’ve never been in before. All of my life I have known that if people needed to be helped, I should help them — I’ve literally been a Boy Scout. All of my adult life I have known that if there is gun-fire, I will run to that sound and protect people.

I … don’t know anymore.

It’s already started. If Rita isn’t with me, I will not stop to help a female stranger, or children. I will call local law enforcement and have them sent there, but without Rita being present I will not offer aid on my own. That goes double if there are children involved.

And that mortifies me, but the risk of having my life destroyed with false allegations is not worth it.

For the first time in my life I do not know what I will do if gunfire erupts in a public place where I am.

If a spree shooter attacks a public place where I am, or am near — I will get family and friends to safety, but after that I literally do not know.

Do I run to the sound of gunfire and solve the problem? I’ve already been the victim of wrongful prosecution once, do I risk that again? Do I take a chance going up against a protected class, and earning the “mostly peaceful” wrath of the howling mob, and a legacy media that lives for stirring up rioters?


There's more at the link.  Go read the whole thing.  It's worth your time.

Remember, too, that Lawdog is a retired officer of the law.  He's spent a career fighting crime and criminals.  If he, in his position, is no longer certain that he can engage evildoers without being tarred with their brush by a politically correct or "woke" justice system, how much more so should we, private citizens, be worried about the same reality?  We can't claim prior and extensive experience in dealing with crime to justify our intervening to help its victims.  We don't have the "protection", in the eyes of the law, that Lawdog has.

Today, we have to accept that in very large parts of these United States the justice system has been warped and twisted along "woke" lines, so that it today protects the politically correct cause du jour and its adherents.  If one doesn't belong to that group, one is almost automatically at greater risk from the authorities, irrespective of the facts of the situation.  Over the past few years I've written a number of articles about this conundrum.  In case you missed any of them, I'll link them below.  I highly recommend that you take time to read them and think about them, because the situations they describe might confront you at any time in this crazy world we live in.


Updating and revising our approach to self-defense:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
What happens if you can't trust
the police to do their job?


In particular, note the problems involved in trying to remain anonymous if you live in a "woke" judicial environment, and don't want to be connected to otherwise legitimate acts of self-defense.  The first article in the list above addresses that issue.  Also, I've said before that a revolver is no longer the optimum choice as a personal defense weapon, because it holds too few rounds to deal with a mob or gang situation.  That remains true:  but there's a countervailing argument that unlike a semi-automatic pistol, a revolver doesn't spit out cartridge cases all over the scene, which can later be analyzed.  There's something to be said for that if you're in a hostile, unreasonable, biased prosecutorial environment.  To make up for the limited number of rounds in a revolver, carry one chambered for the biggest, most powerful cartridge one can control in rapid, aimed fire.  Hitting harder is seldom a bad idea in defensive shooting.

Suffice it to say that in a prosecutorial environment that's as (or more) likely to punish the good guy as the bad, discretion is our watchword.  If, despite that, we choose to intervene, we'd better do so with our eyes wide open as to what trouble that may bring down on our heads.  We should have a good lawyer on speed dial, and refuse to say anything unless and until he/she is with us and has had an opportunity to brief us.  Furthermore, we should minimize the ease with which rogue prosecutors and shyster lawyers can go after us.  This does not include tampering with evidence (which is a crime in itself), but simply observing due caution and discretion is never a bad thing.  Our defense attorneys will thank us for that.

Finally, no matter why or how we've intervened, don't speak to police or anyone else after such an incident unless and until our lawyer(s) has/have interviewed us and briefed us about what may, or should not, be said.  It's too easy to talk ourselves into a jail cell!  Here's a law professor's view of that, and Massad Ayoob's limited corollary to that perspective.  Both are worth watching in full.






Food for thought.

Peter


14 comments:

Texas Dan said...

I live in rural Texas and my go to out in flyover land is a Colt Python .357, when I have to go to Houston or Dallas, brass is my smallest concern and it's my HK in 40 or my Beretta in 45 both with extra mags. It's a crazy world.

Tree Mike said...

It makes sense to have a revolver for a defensive shooting, and something like a Glock 19 for suppressive fire for retreat if the whole affair goes pear shaped. Load yer mags with gloves on.
I used to have the same attitude about "saving innocent's", now my attitude is "I can't save the world, get home for my wife". Discretion, valor, somethin, somethin,yeah...

Rick said...

The Rule of Law is mostly gone away. The protections of the Rule of Law are dwindled. It's a crapshoot if Rule of Law is in effect, and the what degree, wherever you find danger.
So, to protect yourself, your loved ones, and your estate, your first duty has become to distance yourself from the circumstance to which formerly you would offer aid or protection.

It's fundamental transformation of America right before your eyes.

RHT447 said...

At the scene--

Security cameras.
Your cell phone.
Other cell phone cameras.
Your projectiles.
Your DNA.

Don't know how much I would worry about spent brass.

Xoph said...

The problem is one of conscience. Let's say you leave a bad situation and someone or several someones die. Can you live with that?

I had my own experience with a powerless justice system and moved to a more rural area. I doubt the local court would have had a different verdict or changed the handling of the individual who caused the problem and the suit. But fewer people around me lessens the chance of a problem.

Our current problems are systemic and deeply embedded at this point. Satan and his minions (The cabal, Illuminati, whomever) are purposefully attacking our high-trust environment to turn it into low-trust. They are punishing the Good Samaritans to remove both the good that is done and the trust necessary to do it. How to not let them win? How to fight successfully?

Govt to the rescue? COVID and reported inflation were the last 2 nails in the coffin; I can't trust the govt anymore. I will not even chance state and remain suspicious of local. When I moved here I offered to help neighbors for free-I would learn by doing. No one has asked. (They don't trust me, and won't even give me an opportunity to earn trust) I can't find people to hire to do things like fix fencing and I can't find teenage boys for hire. I'm doing it myself as I have spare time. It's a 2 person job, 1 person alone takes 3-4 times longer to get it done when you know what you're doing. I'm slowly building up a list of competent people to help, but mostly it seems to be retirees.

Trust and competence are breaking down. We are heading towards becoming tribes, which will totally wreck our country and is antithetical to Western Civilization. So what we can do is follow our conscience, extend trust and give others a chance to earn it, penalize them if they don't, work to earn your keep and become better/more competent every day, become healthier (eat well, exercise and get enough sleep), and pray.

PS, if you think we are not under systemic attack then ask yourself why the lies about COVID, why lie about inflation, why the big push for green motor vehicles, why let our country be invaded, why let our justice system be corrupted in favor of felons, Why the poor dietary advice, etc. etc. etc. There are many more issues and they form a pattern.

Herman said...

Some months ago a friend dragged me along on a shopping trip, and remarked he was glad I was armed. I pointed out my gun is for me, not you; you are old enough, felony-free enough, and well paid enough to purchase your own gun, get training with it, obtain a concealed carry permit so you can protect yourself and your family with your own gun. In the meantime, if SHTF do not get between me and the closest exit because I'll leave footprints on your back. If someone posing a direct and immediate threat interposes himself between me, or my family, and safety, all bets are off and things Will Get Noisy Fast. Except for that, I'm using the Nike Defense - run away fast. If you can't run, or you're unarmed, too bad, so sad. Since you have shown complete lack of interest in your own level of security or protection, why should I be expected to carry that burden? Should I be expected to pay your auto and homeowner's insurance, too?

Mind your own business said...

This discussion reminds me of the scene in Last of the Mohicans where they come across the remains of the settlers in the burnt-out cabin, and Hawkeye refuses to stop and bury the dead. This astonishes and upsets those inexperienced with frontier warfare. To them it is uncivilized. His response; "They stay where they lay." Why? Because it would let any other enemy war parties know they had been there.

How one acts needs to be situational. What seems like the civilized thing to do has to adapt to reality. Reality sure isn't going to adapt to your notion of civilization.

Anonymous said...

A couple of thoughts.

Double taps are the way to go. If you are taken a court of law, one testimony is better than two. Plus someone tapped twice can't stab/shoot you if you turn your back.

No talking to the police. Even if you are the victim and it was clearly your life or his. Zip it until told otherwise by your lawyer.

Don't lie, but don't give any evidence that can be used to hang you later. Silence is golden as they say.

The police will not have your back. (Note: some of the more rural areas might.) Seriously take a good hard look at the filth coming out of the law schools today. Those are your defense attorneys, prosecutors, judges, etc. Take a good hard look at the PD departments. Note how the leaderships of more or less all the major ones have a certain look/criteria to them. You cannot trust the law to have your back.

Lastly I'd like to relay a story from when my pastor was younger. He went to Venezuela as a missionary. At the time, the area he went to was run by the cartels. He was told in no uncertain terms if there was an incident, the best action he could take was to shoot any muggers, toss their body in the trunk of a car and bury it in the woods. You could not go to the police as they were cartel members in all but name. We aren't there yet, but the way things are going, we might be in less than a decade.

Stay safe. - W

lynn said...

Me too. My first instinct now is to not be there when something bad goes down.

Skyler the Weird said...

Every DA Niphongs to get the Community™ vote these days

Greg said...

Thanks for extending the discussion Peter. I'm copying the comment I made over at Lawdog's:
I too was raised as a Boy Scout, and tried to practice the ethos. But I worked for thirty years in a “Gun Free Zone”, a major medical center where I would have been fired on the spot if I carried at work. I used to tell my co-workers that I had a very bad attitude about that. That if I heard “pop-pop-pop” down the hall, that I WAS GONE! I would vanish faster that a cartoon character in a puff of smoke.
As for the other scenarios discussed above, I have thought long and hard in the years since getting a CCP about what I was willing to do, and in what circumstances. I agree that the culture I grew up in no longer exists in most places, and I will protect what is me and mine, but no further. I find that sad and disgusting, but I will harbor no guilt over it.

Aesop said...

In all places and times, one must do as they think best. The legal system will certainly do exactly that as well.

If you think of that system as nothing but a grindstone, and contemplate what happens to wheat grains within one, you'll always be much better off if you remember not to end up getting run through the press in the first place.

But that includes the corollary that the '60s advice to "Do unto others, then split" was advice borne of wisdom, and numerous law enforcement contacts, even then.

G. Gordon Liddy's counsel to "Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations." also has much to recommend it.

Modernized even more, is the Bart Simpson Model: "I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove a thing."

"Get off the X" may very well include not standing around afterwards to answer dopey questions from people looking for a handy judicial sacrifice, and using their bodycams to help you climb into a prison cell and simplify closing their case.

All of this explains for average folks what the hoodrats have known for decades: "Nobody saw nuthin."

And as much as we applaud Kyle Rittenhouse's marksmanship under pressure, think how much smarter were any 10,000 other folks within a tank of gas of that riot (which happened regardless of his totally superfluous presence), who stayed at home and thus didn't have to defend themselves against anyone, that night, nor later in court.
Or even any 1000 who wouldn't have been hanging about afterwards waiting to "give their side" of the story.

Maniac said...

The whole Daniel Penny thing is all you should need to know.

If they ain't your horses, it ain't your rodeo.

audeojude said...

Regarding the Kyle Rittenhouse situation the one of the last commenters mentioned. From the beginning I was impressed with the sheer control he had all the way through that situation. It was amazing given the chaotic nature of the multitude of others around and the multiple pursuers.

However my takeaway was that he was young and really stupid. It reminds me of myself at 18 leaving a perfectly safe compound in the Philippines against orders to see the excitement of the volatile celebration of the coup between Markos and Aquino in the mid 80's. It wasn't illegal for me to do so just unwise. My situation turned out ok other than getting my entire ass chewed off when I got back. The fact that I had to run for my life from a gang preying on people that evening was the true wake up to the reality that staying away from places that are high risks is better than not. I have had almost zero incidents since then of conflict/fights in my many years because
1. I don't go to places that are high risk.
2. I don't hang out with idiots that get into trouble because they like it or have tempers and can't control themselves.
3. If I see trouble happening or even a situation that could increase the likely hood of trouble I turn and walk the other way.

I have walked away from lookyloo friends that when I warned we need to leave here now, they wanted to see the excitement. Mostly they ended up following me though unhappy, but a few times I ended up leaving them. I don't hang out with those guys anymore.

Back to Rittenhouse. I can see helping a family member or really good friend protect their property. I'm not going to protect some strangers property unless I'm deputized and in today's environment I probably would walk away from that also. Just not worth it.
If it had been someone in Rittenhouse's inner circle he was helping I would be a bit more approving, but even though I think he truly wanted to help, I think a majority of his motivation was "exciting things are happening and I'm going to go see and help". Next he didn't stay on mission. He started interacting with the crowd in an ambivalent manner as first aid while very overtly armed acting as a guard, and then he left what he was guarding and started lookylooing (my made up word. None of this is bad or illegal, just unwise. Unwise is the stomping grounds of teens and early twenties based on my experience :), both male and female.

Pulling all this back to the conversation at hand. You need to game in your head lots of hypothetical situations and decide what your intent is before they happen.
What is your goal.
The common good?
Your life?
Your family's lives?
Getting involved voluntarily?
Getting as far away as possible as quickly as possible?

For me now it is avoid conflict, prioritize the safety of my family, prioritize getting back to my family safely and still able to support them financially. Something happening to me or my wife that negatively impacts our financial support of them would destroy our/their lives. We are marginal as it is and one bad incident, car wreck, medical event involving me or my wife would be devastating.

Figure out what is important in your life and protect that.