Wednesday, January 22, 2025

An interesting point about Presidential pardons

 

The inimitable Karl Denninger makes a very interesting point about Presidential pardons.  Emphasis in original.


The issuance of a pardon imputes guilt and acceptance of one, which is voluntary, confesses guilt (Burdick .v. United States, 1915.)  The reason you must voluntarily accept a pardon is that once pardoned you cannot assert 5th Amendment protections as the risk of criminal sanction has been removed.  Thus you must accept it voluntarily in that you are giving up Constitutional Rights, but in doing so you also confess to the truth of the offense(s) in question.

. . .

A pardon does not erase an offense -- that is, the offense of "parading" or whatever have you that a person was convicted of from Jan 6 is not "gone", however, it is undisputed, because Biden pardoned all of the Jan 6 committee members, that the government and members of Congress obstructed justice which was used to deny said persons a fair trial.  That issuance of the pardon by Joe Biden imputed said guilt and the acceptance thereof confessed to same by the committee members.

That doesn't make the actions of those who paraded (or stole and destroyed, for that matter) into "not occurred."  They did take those actions, and they were charged or convicted as the case may be.  But the trials were not fair as justice was obstructed so whether the original sentences were reasonable (or whether, for example, probation or a modest fine under misdemeanor penalties was a more-appropriate penalty in the case of someone who's crime was mere presence in the Capitol building) was never lawfully and fairly adjudicated.

Trump's pardons and commutations thus might objectively be considered "wrong" except for Biden's action on the way out of office, in which he pardoned obstruction of justice, witness tampering and willful destruction of evidence by persons who led to those prosecutions, all of which were part and parcel of the original charges and trials and due to the acceptance of Biden's pardons by those committee members is in fact a confession of guilt to those federal offenses.

As a direct result Biden's preemptive pardons make the Jan 6 pardons by Trump not only objectively reasonable they became, at the moment Biden issued them, mandatory.


There's more at the link.

That line of argument had not occurred to me.  I think it's stretching things a bit, because I'm sure President Trump had already decided on who he was going to pardon before he took the oath of office - and before President Biden had issued his last-minute pardons of the January 6th investigative committee.  Therefore, I don't think there was a cause-and-effect relationship between one set of pardons and the other.  However, in an ex post facto analysis, I think Mr. Denninger has a valid point.  Whether it legally justifies President Trump's pardons is open to debate, of course, and I'm sure lawyers will have a fine old time arguing about it.  (Of course, there is no need for such legal justification:  the Presidential pardon power is not based on such justification.  It's the prerogative of the Chief Executive of our Republic to pardon whoever he pleases, which is how President Biden got away with his blatantly self-serving and [in my opinion] dishonest and immoral pardons to begin with.)

This also raises the question of whether the Presidential pardon power should be subject to any restrictions, from the committees in many States that consider gubernatorial pardons before presenting their findings to the Governor, to something like the "advice and consent" of the Senate as required for many senior appointments.  I can see arguments in both directions.  I tend to think that unfettered pardon power is a good thing, as long as it's exercised in an honest, upright, moral manner.  How many of our Presidents can be said to have been honest, upright, moral men?  I'll leave that to you to decide for yourself.

Peter


13 comments:

edutcher said...

Idiot's pre-emptive pardons are null and void. Read Article II Section 2 of the Constitution.

"he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States". You have to have committed a Federal crime to be pardoned.

Grog said...

At the risk of starting an argument that can't reach an end point, I will say it is a good thing that the people that were allowed into the capitol building, then locked up for being there, were given pardons. I note that Michael Byrd was not given the same prison time and treatment for shooting Ashli Babbit.

For Peter's last question on moral men in that office, some have been more consistent than others. Which may start a different argument. Heh.

Trumpeter said...

How about you have to be mentally competent to issue said pardon as a baseline requirement.

jason x said...

In other words, congress can grill all the Biden family and Fauci etc and they can't plead the 5th.

jason x said...

Since Biden pardoned Fauci et al for unknown crimes they have to be grilled so we know what they did. They lose their 5th ammendment right by accepting the pardon which means they are required to spill the beans. And if they won't confess what they did they must be jailed for that and charged with crimes for concealing the crimes which they have no 5th ammendment right to hide anymore.

Anonymous said...

OK, possibly dumb question: If the blanket pardon of, say, Fauci, results in tacit admission of crimes *and* revocation of 5th protection WRT those crimes, does that mean he can be compelled to testify against all his underlings for said criminal activity, and perjury or refusal result in *new* charges for which he has not been pardoned?

Anonymous said...

I suspect the pardon of the J6 committee members violates the Separation of Powers principle.

For the President to grant a Pardon for official acts taken by a Congressional committee is to imply that he has jurisdiction over their activities.

A gray area would be the application of that to staff & associates.

Anonymous said...

Biden's preemptive pardons - I would like to see this "preemptive" go to the Supreme Court. Could he do this for all his staffers plus spouses and children both passed and present?

Anonymous said...

Could all the legal arguments that the J6 Committee suppressed exculpatory evidence be approved now that they are pardoned for covering it up?

Aesop said...

Which makes presidential pardons, even pre-emptive ones, bulletproof, becuase in accepting one, you impute the guilt they imply to yourself.
The conversation about this is null and void.
QED

Aesop said...

There will be no review of presidential pardoning power, as such would require amending the Constitution, which is about as likely as elephants flying, not least of which because neither party would issue such prior restraint, nor would any president sign such a bill. And you won't see a veto-proof majority in the rest of your lifetime.

The topic is a dead issue, with an oak stake in its heart, and a clove of garlic in its mouth, before it ever gets off the ground.

Aesop said...

It does no such violation.
The president can issue a federal pardon to anyone with a pulse.
Period.
You could look it up.

Rib said...

I read an account that stated President only decided to issue blanket J6 pardons after Biden’s crime family and J6 committee pardons were announced, and that he felt the J6’s prosecutions were tainted. In addition, as you state, destruction of records pertaining to a criminal case is a crime and enough to get a conviction thrown out, certainly if one is willing to spend enough $$$ on lawyers.

Moreover, what about the “informants” the DOJ IG found or admitted to, the masked men in black, the scaffold, and pipe bombs? I saw a LA Salon owner’s account of how the crowd was funneled past open barricades with the Security back’s turned towards them, at which point, the J6r’s were pushed back presumably when critical mass was reached. They were then pepper sprayed and beaten with Security-wielded clubs (one woman to death). The whole situation sounds contrived and instigated. A “reasonable” person may feel compelled to intervene against a woman being beaten to death, regardless of who the thugs were.

Finally, court charges are like crap thrown against a wall - let’s see what sticks. A plea of guilty to a lesser felony may seem like a better deal than several other inflated charges, especially with defendant court-appointed attorney’s aligned with TDS judges they may have to work with in regards to their more lucrative paying clients down the road. Not to mention withheld video evidence. IMO, the whole thing stinks. Corrupt, corrupy, corrupt. I support President Trump’s J6 pardons.