Monday, March 3, 2025

Friday's little diplomatic bust-up has revealed a lot

 

When President Zelensky tried (and failed) to maneuver President Trump into providing security guarantees for Ukraine, he not only damaged his country's relationship with ours, he also acted as the spark to a fuse that's since revealed all sorts of interesting behind-the-scenes information.

First off, it's clear Zelensky was manipulated into acting as he did.  A cabal of Senators met with him beforehand, and appear to have assured him that if he insisted on guarantees, Trump would cave in and provide them.  Did they do that because they actually believed their assurances, or because they wanted to make President Trump look bad in front of the world's press?  I'm betting on the latter - and the fact that he didn't cave in, but stood firm on his original premise, appears to have shocked those Senators as much as it did Zelensky.  Francis Porretto put it like this:


Zelensky met with a bipartisan group of Senators before meeting with Trump and Vance. I have yet to see such a report that went into the details of the meeting. How did those Senators advise the Ukrainian? Unclear. Worse, the ABC report concludes with a statement from two Democrat Senators castigating Trump and Vance!

[Minnesota Senator Amy] Klobuchar and [Delaware Senator Chris] Coons came out with posts on X in defense of the Ukrainian president after his exchange in the Oval Office, particularly the moment in which Vance accused Zelenskyy of being “disrespectful” toward his American hosts.

“Answer to Vance: Zelenskyy has thanked our country over and over again both privately and publicly. And our country thanks HIM and the Ukrainian patriots who have stood up to a dictator, buried their own & stopped Putin from marching right into the rest of Europe. Shame on you,” Klobuchar wrote.

“Every time I’ve met with President Zelenskyy, he’s thanked the American people for our strong support. We owe him our thanks for leading a nation fighting on the front lines of democracy — not the public berating he received at the White House,” Coons wrote.

The transcript of the Trump / Vance / Zelensky meeting makes it plain that the backhanding the Ukrainian received was only what his conduct had earned. Why, then, would two United States Senators characterize it in the exact opposite fashion?

Because they [like Zelensky] are animated by hatred.

If there’s anything the Democrat Party despises without limit, it’s a Republican president who refuses to play by their rules. Atop that, Trump is an outsider: one who, by their lights, doesn’t belong in the corridors of power ... They want his hide tacked up on their barn wall as a warning to others who contemplate intruding on their domain.


There's more at the link.

Nor is such behind-the-scenes encouragement limited to politicians.  Deep State neocons were part of it too, as Mollie Hemingway notes.


Zelensky repeatedly declined opportunities to sign the deal in Kyiv and Munich, and requested the meeting at the White House. It later came out that [Susan] Rice and Tony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman may have been personally advising Zelensky to do this meeting in the way he did -- that they recommended him to be hostile and to try to goad Trump into blowing up. Even though he didn't, and even though Zelensky's actions horrified many normal Americans, the Obama team went on the airwaves to falsely characterize what happened.

I think their goal was to have a wonderful performance by Zelensky, an angry Trump appearing to scuttle the deal, and the support of the neocon portion of the GOP to start applying pressure on Trump to have US Troop commitments as part of the "security guarantee." It was a set-up, in Susan Rice's interesting choice of words.

. . .

As you can see from the hostility of the bureaucracy to any Republican oversight, no matter how reasonable or minor it may be, the entrenched bureaucracy and permanent DC apparatus is quite active. That goes quadruple for the deep state in the Intelligence Community. I'd expect more and more shenanigans and to be prepared so that you don't fall for the next information operation. The post-WWII architecture in Europe and the US needs this war to continue or be settled on "US troops on the ground" type guarantees, even though that's not what Americans want.

Things will heat up here, and it's a very dangerous time.


Again, more at the link.

What steps are being taken to bring charges against those US "advisers" for interfering in foreign affairs?  At the very least, they should be registered as foreign agents if they want any say in the matter.  If they're not, they've broken the law, and should be charged.

We also see that the so-called "Deep State" isn't limited to the USA, but is an international operation, with "Deep States" (for want of a better term) active in every European nation and in the European Union as a whole.  That was made very clear when several European leaders consoled and encouraged Zelensky in precisely and exactly the same words.  It was like those news broadcasts we've seen in the USA, where dozens or scores or even hundreds of nominally "independent" TV news stations all parrot exactly the same words and phrases to their audience, clearly reading from the same script.  Those European leaders were using a script for public consumption when they encouraged Zelensky.  It's as plain as the nose on your face, and demonstrates how forces and individuals behind the scenes are manipulating the situation.

The lack of logic and rationality behind the European approach was illustrated by Polish prime minister Donald Tusk when he pointed out that "500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians."  Europe appears willing to fight to the last American to defend Ukraine - and President Trump's not playing that game.  Now they have to figure out how to do it themselves, without American firepower to support them - but they've cut their armed forces to the bone in order to pay for entitlement programs.  How are they going to do it?  The short and simple answer is that, without the USA, they can't.  As Divemedic put it:


There is not a reason to spill a single drop of American blood, nor waste a single American dollar on a war that simply isn’t our problem. Let Europe worry about this one. I don’t think that Russia is going to go to war with the European Union unless the EU keeps beating war drums and trying to start one. We need to stop letting France, Britain, Russia, and Germany drag us into the wars that they have been fighting in Europe for over 1,300 years. If they want to keep fighting, let them, but there is no reason for us to be involved.


More at the link.  I said much the same thing three years ago.

Finally, the Telegraph advises that there may be "wheels within wheels" on this issue.


The president appeared to make an initial offer to Putin that contained nearly everything the Russian dictator wanted ... But there may well be a more sophisticated logic behind Trump’s seeming madness.

The Trump administration is thought to view China, not Russia, as the gravest threat to the United States and Europe in the long-term, having declared in the 2017 National Security Strategy that it is a “revisionist” power that seeks “to erode American security and prosperity”. China’s Belt and Road initiative is widely seen as a disguised attempt to secure control of future land and sea routes, by laying out massive transport, energy, and telecommunication infrastructure across the Eurasian landmass.

. . .

The Trump administration has every incentive to undo China’s Grand Strategy.

Team Trump may well have concluded that this can only be achieved through radical changes to US foreign policy elsewhere. In the first instance, it necessitates cutting the West’s losses in Ukraine and conserving US combat power to deter Beijing. US officials seem to have realised that Putin is prepared and willing to fight, at almost any cost to Russia, until the last surviving Ukrainian and until the last missile is left in the West’s stockpiles.

. . .

A peace deal in Ukraine might have the benefit of giving Nato members the breathing space – as well as the incentive – to finally re-focus their economies towards defence, so that they can meet Trump’s call for 5 per cent of GDP to be spent on their militaries. On Tuesday, Starmer committed to increase UK defence spending to 2.5 per cent of GDP, up from 2.3 per cent now. Others are likely to follow suit. A rearmed Nato would serve as a much stronger deterrent against both Russia and China in the long-term, minimising the chances that Putin might attack a Nato country in the future.

. . .

Trump may be preparing to signal to Putin that he is content with Russia serving as the dominant power in Eurasia, as long as it doesn’t invade a Nato country. By having direct talks with Russia and excluding Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelensky, at least for the time being, Trump has already played on Putin’s sense of vanity, Russian national pride, and Moscow’s long-term sense of being a great power that deserves a seat at the table with the big boys.

. . .

Peace in Ukraine, a reshuffle of alliances in the Middle East, and a new settlement with Russia would allow the United States to return to a version of the original Monroe Doctrine, refocusing on hemispheric defence and freeing Washington up to directly confront Beijing. Having renamed the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, Trump is signalling to China to get out of the US sphere of influence and strategic security perimeter. 

The US would protect the Western Hemisphere – North, Central, and South America, including the surrounding islands. Russia would dominate Eurasia. Europe would look after itself. And with US assistance, Japan, Australia and South Korea would, within a Joint Deterrence Force framework, take the lead in ensuring stability in the Indo-Pacific. 

Could this be Trump’s latest Art of the Deal? We may be about to find out.


More at the link (may be paywalled).

The Telegraph is quite correct.  President Trump can't allow himself to fixate on Ukraine and its problems.  He has to sort out our own country's internal mess and deal with geopolitical issues across Europe, the Middle East, Eurasia and the Far East, all at the same time.  Committing too much US effort to Ukraine would force him to short-change all those other areas . . . to the undoubted pleasure of China, North Korea, Iran and other trouble-makers, who would instantly move to take advantage of such preoccupation elsewhere.

I'm very sorry for the people of Ukraine, who find themselves pawns in a battle of nations and alliances and are bleeding and dying while the politicians wring their hands and search for solutions.  Ukrainians are the real victims here . . . but nobody's talking about them.  They aren't even on the globalists' radar screen.  They're the "little people".  They don't count.

May God have mercy on them.  They're going to need it.

Peter


16 comments:

KevinM said...

Someone made a comment about the GOM being renamed the GOA to which Biden signed an order no drilling in the GOM right before he left........but now it's GOA?is it really that easy?if so smart move by the administration.

Don C. said...

Hemingway may have made an unfounded accusation about Susan RIce at al. Or, since we already know that Susan Rice is a confirmed liar, Rice may actually have been an advisor to Zelenskyy. Why hasn't anyone asked Zelenskyy? He's never lied, has he?

riverrider said...

we have given over 500k souls to defend europe. our debt is paid in full. they need to pull up their panties and take care of themselves. bring the troops home, ALL of them!

Anonymous said...

I'll just drop this here.
https://x.com/WallStreetMav/status/1896589200537067954

Rick T said...

The funniest part of the aftermath was Fatboy Vindman demanding, I say DEMANDING, that Vance and Trump apologize to Z..

Just another sign that both Vindman brothers should have their naturalizations revoked then the and their kin should be repatriated to Ukraine. They both lied thru their teeth during their Naturalization oath that begins "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;...."

Anonymous said...

I wasn't particularly horrified at Zelensky's actions, though I thought they were...unwise. Vance started spewing nonsense, Zelensky demurred, and then Trump and Vance decided to treat disagreement as disrespect.

Aesop said...

Natzsofast, Guido.

If Trump plans to achieve "peace in Ukraine" by throwing Ukraine to the wolves, he's going to undo any semblance of respect for any US security promises to anyone since ever, and probably topple any faith in the US dollar as well. While throwing a tanker full of av-gas on nuclear non-proliferation forever, and following that up with a lit road flare.

Like a first-time hooker, once you sell out your respectability to make a buck, you can't get the respectability back, ever.

Trump is shooting his junk off, and he's going to miss it presently, when he needs it most.

That's a high price to pay for the momentary satisfaction of peeing on Zelensky's head.

Ukraine isn't about Ukraine. It's about whether our word to anyone is worth a plugged nickel.

The last time America had a military as weak as ours is now, and we embraced isolationism, there came a world war that made the previous one look like a church picnic.

That's exactly the course Trump is embarking upon now, and for the exact same short-sighted isolanist/populist reasons as the last time this was tried, and with - inevitably - the exact same results.

Last time, the problem children were Germany and Japan with delusions of grandeur.

This time, it's Russia and China, with 10X the capability anyone faced off against during the Second World War Games.

Trump is playing chicken with a freight train, and when he's dead and long gone, America will still be on the tracks staring at the oncoming headlight.

Best wishes with that plan 5, 10, and 20 years down the road.

People still playing kneejerk [D] and [R] games over things beyond the water's edge are going to repent that foolishness at their leisure.

Or enjoy about 30 minutes of a really, REALLY bright sunshiny day, probably at about 3AM. Hope you've all got you some 30,000 SPF sunscreen.

lynn said...

This is very bad for Zelensky. First, he does not understand politics of a free nation, typical for a dictator. Second, he is a grifter looking for handouts and the USA is broke. Third, he pissed off his neighbor and does not understand why his neighbor wants to kill him, again typical for a dictator.

lynn said...

> If Trump plans to achieve "peace in Ukraine" by throwing Ukraine to the wolves, he's going to undo any semblance of respect for any US security promises to anyone since ever, and probably topple any faith in the US dollar as well. While throwing a tanker full of av-gas on nuclear non-proliferation forever, and following that up with a lit road flare.

Where is the treaty with Ukraine that promises the Full Faith and Credit of the USA to protect Ukraine ? Answer, no where. Obama made promises that he could not keep. I know to outsiders that they are confused by our Constitution but to us this is incredibly important. "To Yourself Be True" is incredibly important, this is why treaties with the USA are so hard to make, you have to get a lot of people that this is important to them.

Anonymous said...

Russia and China are going to invade the rest of the world just like Japan, Soviet Russia, and Germany in 1939 unless the US bleeds itself dry supporting Ukraine?
The US not playing world police≠instant WWIV. Russia isn't interested in conquering the world. Neither is China. And the US has a long history of ignoring our promises and treaties when it's sufficiently inconvenient, or we just feel like it. And congress didn't ratify any treaty with Ukraine. They rattled sabers, and so on, but absolutely no binding agreement was ratified. Presidents have been making and breaking promises since Washington. The sky isn't falling, and the US and global order isn't going to last past the 2030s anyway. Take a few deep breaths and relax.

audeojude said...

This is about way more than most seem to be seeing.
in mostly chronological order or roughly so.
1 we (The USA) abrogated our agreements and NATO agreements with Russia about a dozen times over the last 30 years.
in 2014 the Obama administration over threw the democratic elections in Ukraine to put in a puppet government. We have since maintained our influence there up to current times. This war did not have to happen but the US counseled Ukraine not to come to a peaceful resolution before it started and that we would bring Ukraine into NATO which is why this turned into a war. Putin said up front that was what he would do if they tried to bring Ukraine into NATO. (side note, he also tried to the same to Israel in the same time period. and we successfully did the same thing in a handful of other nations in the last 20 years)

2. zelinski met with EU/UK and democratic elected officials leading up to the white house meeting and he used their stratagem to try and force trump to change the deal so that the US would be the guarantee of peace in Ukraine. We nor NATO can be the guarantor of peace there. that would be a no go and a further encroachment and negation of the treaty s we have already abrogated with Russia.
3. Neither JD Vance nor trump lost their tempers. It was all pre planned theater. If zelinski had signed the existing deal most likely it wouldn't have happened. Maybe! maybe it would have. However I think that the knew what was going to happen and set that whole farce up to give him enough rope to hang himself. Some random person off screen right berated zelinsky for not wearing a suit. and nobody on our side said boo. Then JD Vance just goes ballistic a while later, true zelinski did keep pushing to change the already agreed on deal but VD went from 0 to light speed in nothing flat and trump didn't flinch didn't even acknowledge it was going on till zelinski tried to push back hard and then he jumped in to. Like I said, it was all pre planned.
4. now there are more options on our side on the table. One push for Ukraine to remove zelinski from office, two, more room to push for concessions from Ukraine. three, gives us room to just walk away from the whole mess and blame Ukraine for not wanting to end the war and dealing in bad faith with us.
5. This was even more of a message to the EU and UK than to Ukraine.

I feel for the Ukrainian people. The USA, EU, UK and the people we put in power in Ukraine for the last decade have all used them as puppets in the slaughter house of benefits and money. Why do you think they are saying 100 billion dollars are missing. The same way billions and billions are missing here in the US, because when you do these types of deals money always goes missing and lines someone's pockets. Thats what this is all about. We give weapons to Ukraine that they sell around the world and pocket the money (or at least certain people there, I'm sure that CIA and others facilitated all this and took their cut also all part of the plan up front). Of money given to Ukraine I'm sure that large chunks spun off here and there to the people that, that, money was truly intended for.

6. you do realize that most of the leaders of Europe are owned by the same people that own our deep state, and leaders that support that deep state. So you need to understand that they are going to be serious enemy's of trump and those that support trump trying to dismantle the deep state. He understands this and you can see his actions reflect it. Anyone that looks at the flow of money through the NGO's that has been uncovered and what it has been being used for and who it has been going to would be able to see at least the broad strokes of this existential threat to the free world, or better described as the no longer free world that trump is trying to drag back into the light.

audeojude said...

I have enjoyed following coffee and covid's posts. He is a bit demogogish for my taste but he keeps up with a lot of current events involving the trump administrations actions and posts links which I like.

this link has a lot of info spread throughout it talking about EU, Russia, USA and potential goals of trump.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/one-month-monday-march-3-2025-c-and

I think it is close to the truth. Again my opinion is that Trump is totally manipulating and breaking how our deep state and controlling politicians have done stuff for decades and trying to reset our foreign policy and trade on a totally new trajectory that truly/hopefully will service America better than what we have seen in our lives. I'm not sure that it is possible but what he has done so far has so exceeded my expectations that I'm in daily shock. I hope he keeps it up and can dismantle the stranglehold the left/right/shadow organizations have had on our country and us for our entire lives. God knows what it will look like in the end and whether it will be better or worse but he is breaking the very core of what I have wanted someone to do something about my entire adult life once I begin paying attention to this stuff.

Landroll said...

Some mighty strange analysis' taking place in comments. Does everyone forget that Ukraine turned over the nukes left behind in Ukraine by the dissolution of the USSR? They were turned over to Russia on the promise by US, UK, and Russia to respect and protect the borders of Ukraine as they existed at the time. Well, I guess that ship has sailed. Last thing to say is I don't want to see DJT walk out of the White House waving papers saying, "There will be peace in our time". Didn't work out so well last time that phrase was uttered.

Aesop said...

@lynn,

You've had 31 years to catch yourself up on things of which you are wholly ignorant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Ukraine gave up SS-24 ICBMs, and the status of the world's third-largest nuclear power, in return for assurances by the US, Russia, and the UK that their sovereign status would not be violated.

Such assurances are worthless if anyone thinks using Clintonesque word-parsing will let us think sending Russia a sharply-worded telegram for three separate invasions of Ukraine fulfills that duty.

Throwing Ukraine to the wolves because those promises are inconvenient underlines that surrendering nuclear weapons was the among the Top Three Stupidest National Decisions in 6000 years of recorded world history.

It also means we have no valid reason to object to the Norks' arsenal, or Iran's once they get them, nor anyone else's going forward.

And everyone else who has avoided developing nukes are going to look at how we honor our 1994 agreement, and judge whatever fairytales we promised them in the same light.

Including the "full faith and credit" given to greenbacks and digital 1s and 0s.

Read up on how much fun life in Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe, and Venezuela were not, once the currency became worthless. Take careful notes. Trump's putting America on the short list to be next, every time he shoots his mouth off here, while emboldening Russia and China even more than senile Joe did, and doing more to undermine Ukraine's survival as a nation in three months than all Putin's horses and all of Putin's men have been able to accomplish in three years of all-out war.

One own-goal is regrettable.
Doing them by the double and triple is inexcusable.
Someone needs to tackle President Trump before he speaks again, while there's any of his own junk left to shoot off.

About now, Tim Matheson should send Zelensky a telegram that says "Hey, Flounder, you f**ked up: you trusted us."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTF2j0OWUi8

Seal Of Lion said...

Here's a question: Do all of those 140 million Russians really exist? Who does the census in Russia? Putin? If so, why would he tell the truth if its below 140 million?

bultaco1495 said...

All day, 13 comments, and finally, someone - has a memory (see Landroll, above.)! Under the Bill Clinton administration, we persuaded them to give up their nuclear arms; in exchange, we promised them that we'd protect them. Look it up. It'll take some digging (such histories are scrubbed), but that is indeed what happened. So, he's (Zelensky) right - he does think we owe him.
[Not that I give a darn; I don't]