At least, that's what a report in the Army Times suggests.
On all key technical measures, the Next Generation Squad Weapons program is imploding before Army’s very eyes. The program is on mechanical life support, with its progenitors at the Joint Chiefs obstinately now ramming the program through despite spectacularly failing multiple civilian-sector peer reviews almost immediately upon commercial release.
Indeed the rifle seems cursed from birth.
. . .
The XM-5/7 as it turns out fails a single round into a mud test ... the rifle seemingly fails, at point-blank ranges, to meet its base criteria of penetrating Level 4 body armor (unassisted) ... The fundamental problem with the program is there remains not enough tungsten available from China, as Army knows, to make the goal of making every round armor piercing even remotely feasible. The plan also assumes that the world’s by far largest supplier will have zero problems selling tungsten to America only for it to be shot back at its troops during World War III.
. . .
Another problem is the weapon sight. The Vortex XM-157, which may have critical components made in China, is most definitely not an ‘auto-aiming’ sight. For guaranteed hits, the shooter still must manually ‘ping’ the target. This takes back usable seconds and makes shooting 100% accurately on the fly, as envisioned under the program to justify the reduced available round count, an utter pipe dream. The scope is otherwise a normal scope.
. . .
In terms of weight, recoil, durability and ballistics, expectations vs reality are crashing down on Army right now, hard.
There's more at the link.
This sounds to me like eggheads (in and out of uniform) saying something like, "Wouldn't it be great if our basic infantry weapon could do X, and Y, and Z, and..." without an adult in the room, a combat-experienced adult, to tell them to back off and face reality. Technology is wonderful when it works. When it doesn't, it can get you killed.
In my younger days, serving first with the South African military and then with Armscor, which was the armaments development, production and procurement authority for the armed forces, that lesson was driven home again and again and again. Weapon designers were constantly urged to make their designs "soldier-proof". A constant refrain was the (probably ancient) mythical tale of the soldier who was locked in a room containing only three solid steel balls. When he was let out 24 hours later, he'd lost one, broken another, and got the third one pregnant! The story is funny, but it's also a reminder that soldiers will do anything and everything they can think of with (and to) their issued equipment, including their weapons. Unless one designs for that reality, things can go pear-shaped in a hurry.
The new XM5/7 rifle (whatever the designation ends up being) is filled with new technology, but that technology doesn't seem to have been "soldier-proofed". It's so advanced it may wear out the weapon before its time (see the incredibly high chamber pressure produced by the new 6.8mm round, much higher than any previously fielded service rifle cartridge). The new hi-tech sight may be wonderful when it works, but if it doesn't, or if the batteries run down and can't be replaced, it's just so much extra weight to lug around. (Also, how dust- and waterproof is it? It may have done well in development tests, but after a few months in the field, things may look rather different. For a well-known example of that, see the sorry, sordid history of the M-16's introduction in Vietnam.)
South Africa got around a lot of those problems by requiring that pre-production prototypes (the last stage in the development cycle) should, whenever possible, be tested in the field, under combat conditions, by the engineers who'd designed and would be producing them. This tended to concentrate the engineers' minds wonderfully, because their lives might (quite literally) depend on the quality and serviceability of the weapon they'd designed. If it didn't work, they might (and sometimes did) find themselves in a world of hurt. That tended to clarify the design of new weapons better than any paper specification would suggest. It enforced simplicity (the K.I.S.S. principle) and rugged reliability - and in warfare, there's nothing more important than the latter. If it doesn't work, or breaks down under the stress of combat, why are you lugging it around in the first place?
(To illustrate, that's why I admire the AK-47 rifle. It may not be the world's most accurate or ergonomic rifle, but the damn thing is just about indestructible. It can withstand abuse that would lock up any M4/M16, whether that be lack of maintenance, or mud in the works, or whatever. I've personally dug a half-buried AK-47 out of hardened African red clay laterite mud, dumped it in a stream to wash off the worst of the external dirt, kicked the action open with my boot to flush out internal mud, inserted a loaded magazine that was also filthy with mud inside and out (and had just been rinsed in the same stream), and fired off all 30 rounds without a single malfunction. No lubrication, no detail stripping, just stone cold reliability. You could see it kicking dust and dirt out of the barrel and the ejection port as it fired, abuse that would destroy just about any other rifle - but it kept on shooting. Amazing!)
I wish the Army well in their efforts to develop an improved service weapon. I think it's needed. However, I'm not at all sure that the XM5/7 is going to be all that and a slice of toast. They might do well to spend a lot more time on careful testing and (re)development. See this article (and particularly the comments from readers) about the issue if you'd like to learn more.
Peter
20 comments:
some 4 star needs a retirement package and plans on getting it w/ sig. its not even about the gee whizbang coolguy quality of the rifle/mg. its all about the benjamins. always has been, always will be. embrace the suck.
It's like the Sig P320. How often will the military need to put optics on the pistol or change the grip modules? I've got two but rely on Glock. I enjoy the simplicity of the AK over the AR as well, but both have worked well for me.
Short range bullet penetration is frequently less than hoped for. It appears that bullets have to fly 100-200 yards before stabilizing completely. The other stuff probably depends on alternate sources of mithril.
I agree. It looks funny when the army goes all Sig. I think that their are real questions around the MHS buy, fewer around this.
I do think it is weird that the choice was between Sig and Texron of all people. No Colt, Knights, LMT, Robinson, etc.
The last time the Army was all one brand for individual arms was in the 60s when they adoped the M16 - and they actively tried sabatoging that.
I would add that it looks like a rifle designed by committee and meant for Afganistan
Maybe they can get strapped on to kites and used to shoot down balloons...
Rayathon and LM have that market tied up - it isnt expensive or shiney enough
I won't be happy until we field the M-21A Pulse Rifle.
Another boondoggle: some people's retirement plan, masquerading as "helping the troops", which is no such thing.
They want a bigger bullet?
Field a product-improved AR-10.
Already a short transition, and overcomes any supposed shortcomings of the .223, in favor of an already bog-standard NATO round.
And no 10-year period (at minimum, best case) to full operational capability.
But there's no payola involved, so that's a non-starter.
This is so transparently grift and graft in action they could have done the presentation on glass, and worn their future SiGArms name tags and titles on their uniforms.
There is a shit ton of superior rounds for the M-4 or Ar-10 family of rifles that can deliver 500+ yd. lethal accuracy. If it were being built for the troops.
The officer who taught my naval architecture class at the US Naval Academy had worked on the design projects for the next generation warship. He had a rant about the impossible design criteria which required more advanced technological systems to reduce manning requirements, which is fine and the design team could achieve, but it was impossible when combined with a criteria that it must cost less when it goes into production than what is currently paid to build the equivalent ships. How does one design something more technologically advanced to require less crew but make it cost less than the current less technological design, especially when a decade of inflation is added to the mix? Thus, it was a fruitless cycle of spending years coming up with a design only to be sent back to the drawing board because it was too expensive, and this cycle got repeated over and over.
"Better. Faster. Cheaper.
Pick any two."
Just a reminder…
Those “reviewers” are just as much part of the media that we have repeatedly acknowledged as completely untrustworthy.
Journalists write articles to sell articles, and there are no sales in “No Problems”.
Yeah, ok. We’ve all seen failures in selection criteria and processes before, and no doubt they will happen again.. BUT if our knee-jerk response to to take a bunch of “maybe” and assume that it is cast-iron truth, then we are as easily manipulated as any other mob of sheep.
But what would I know?
That the M16 was just as problematic when it was introduced? Or that we were all supposed to be starving by the 1980s?. I’m getting tired of catastropharians.
I notice that the author of the pressure article you referenced makes the common mistake of conflating pressure and force... Not an encouraging sign!
I agree that they are pushing this awfully hard for a completely new system. I thought we were supposed to field weapons in NATO standard calibers for compatibility?
As far as lack of terminal performance, speed isn't everything and as mentioned above there are parts that aren't understood yet and some successes are by accident.
Is it correct to say that a squad weapon is for short to mid range suppressive fire? If so, why are they worrying about long range precision shooting? It seems to me that they are trying to do everything with 1 gun and we know that means it won't do anything well...
I like the idea of going the AR10 route, or even a CETME/ G3 style weapon.
Jonathan
FG42
Start with the bullet: what must it be able to do? What recoil, muzzle energy, energy at some ideal longer range, penetration, etc., must it have. Pick the bullet.
How fast does the bullet have to go to achieve said performance?
That gives you the design parameter for the case.
Pick the case from existing, or design anew.
Having the cartridge, you mod a proven platform to use it.
It's not rocket science, but there is little money in doing it right the first time.
Personally I like the 6.5 Grendel or 260 Rem a lot more than the XM5 bimetallic beast.
The UK military went the same path with the SA80.
Type 45 Destroyers that would not work in warmish water.
Ajax armored vehicle that damages the crew riding in it.
Right back to WW1 with "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."
I worked getting new kit into service.
Whenever the it stopped working because of a software crash and problem investigated and a possible cause found, the software engineer's despairing cry would always be "But why the f would anyone do that."
Ok ask Custer why the military gave his troops Springfield 45-70 and the Indian bureau was giving the Indians Winchester payoff to General’s
This channel did some “debunking” on the article. Take it or leave it. Just data point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4-P1Vx3FY
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