Friday, June 19, 2015

The Tor boycott is on


So, in the end, we have a company, Tor (and its holding company, Macmillan) that is/are apparently unwilling to take responsibility for the misdeeds of its employees, their misuse of corporate time and resources during those misdeeds, and their deliberate slander, libel and lying about a large part of the fan base upon which that company depends for its livelihood.  I think that constitutes an indelibly shameful mark on executives at both companies, and makes them complicit in the actions and statements of their employees.  In my days in the corporate world, such behavior would have been regarded as contemptible, and such lack of action in the face of customer anger would have produced at least a compelling case study at a business school, probably titled "How to commit executive career suicide".  However, I doubt very much whether my opinion matters to those involved.  They seem to be clinging to the more 'modern' approach - hunker down, say nothing, deny everything, and hope the problem will go away.  I wonder whether at least some of them understand the meaning of the term 'dishonor'?  If they don't, I suggest they look in the mirror to see a living definition.

Nor are they alone in their dishonor.  The so-called 'Social Justice Warriors' or SJW's who've supported the guilty parties for years have been shrill in their screeching support for their heroes and heroines.  That's continued in the present crisis.  The facts of the situation have been ignored, and those drawing attention to those facts (including yours truly) have become objects of scorn, derision and open attack.  That's not surprising, of course.  Such lack of honesty and unwillingness to face the facts is a hallmark of the left-wing, progressive element in politics and society.  It's been that way for decades, all around the globe.  Facts are not important to such people.  What matters is the narrative, the 'spin' put upon the facts for the faithful to believe and propagate in the face of reality.  It's a classic application of the 'Big Lie' theory - and it still works just as well on blindly loyal 'useful idiots' as it ever did.

(There are those who think that because the 'Big Lie' theory is of Nazi origin, it's therefore right-wing rather than left-wing.  *Facepalm* . . . I should like to point out that the Nazi party's full name was the "National Socialist Democratic Workers' Party".  The Nazi's were left-wing totalitarians.  The 'Big Lie' thus dovetails perfectly with the SJW mentality - and with the Alinsky playbook of which they're so fond.)

I've said all I need to say about the present scandal at Tor.  If you haven't already read about it, there's a vast quantity of material out there.  My articles on the subject may be found in reverse chronological order here, complete with many external links.  If you're interested, I suggest you read them from earliest to latest to see how things developed.

On June 15th I said this.

As I wrote in my earlier, private letter to Tor and Macmillan:

"... please be advised that I look for the following actions from Tor ... :
  1. Tor should publicly apologize for the efforts by all, repeat, all of the persons I named ... to demonize, denigrate, slander and lie about the ‘Puppies’ campaigns;
  2. Tor should publicly reprimand those individuals for stepping over the line (including misusing company time and computer equipment to do so);
  3. Tor should publicly indicate that it is putting in place policies to prevent any recurrence of such issues.
Please note that I am not demanding the dismissal of, or resignations by, the individuals concerned."

I am simply not prepared to allow the lies, slander, libel and open contempt of those named above to continue unchallenged.  Therefore, those expectations still hold.  If they have not been met by noon on Friday, I shall call for a boycott of Tor Books.

Regrettably, due to the apparent lack of action by (and the deafening silence from) Tor and Macmillan, the time has come to do as I promised.  I therefore ask all those who believe, as I do, that the recent statement by Irene Gallo, and the pattern of behavior and statements from others at Tor whom I've previously named, are completely unacceptable, to join me in refusing to buy any of Tor's products from now on.

I support and endorse what Larry Correia said about this yesterday.

... this is between Tor and its readers who feel insulted, not the Sad Puppies campaign or the people who ran it ... To the Sad Puppies supporters, do what you think is right. All I’m asking is that whatever you do, try to be as civil as possible in your disagreements. Stick with the facts.

There's much more at the link.  (Recommended reading for background and more information.)

I am not a member of, and I do not speak for, either the 'Sad Puppies' or 'Rabid Puppies' campaigns (although I support the former).  I don't represent cute puppies, playful puppies, cuddly puppies or hush puppies - only myself.  If you share, in whole or in part, my values and outlook on life, I invite you to join me in this boycott.  Don't do so just because I, or anyone else, is asking you to do so.  Act on the basis of your own informed conscience and reasoned judgment.

There are those who protest that a boycott of Tor will prevent them buying books they want to read, and/or hurt their favorite authors.  I can only point out that used copies of those books are usually available from many sources soon after publication, often in very good to excellent condition, and sometimes at prices much lower than a new copy.  As for your favorite authors, if you buy a used copy of their book(s), why not send them the money they would have made as a royalty if you'd bought it new?  In fact, given that many royalties are a pittance, why not send them more than that?  Many authors have so-called 'tip jars' on their blogs or Web sites, or you can write to them enclosing a check or money order.

There are those who doubt that a boycott can achieve anything.  I can only reply that 'doing the right thing' is important in itself.  It's a matter of honor - and although any mention of honor may be greeted with scorn and derision in these 'modern' times, I was raised to value the concept and live by it.  I still do.  I doubt I'm alone in that.

What's more, in a SF/F market that's increasingly dominated by independent authors, with cratering sales among mainstream publishers and tight financial margins, even a small boycott may have an impact out of all proportion to its size.  I'm certain, on the basis of support already voiced, that we can achieve a short-term six-figure reduction in Tor's annual turnover.  All that'll take is a couple of thousand people not spending their usual $50 per year on Tor books (and many have, until now, spent a lot more than that - for example, see here).  With more supporters and/or bigger spenders involved, the impact will be correspondingly greater.  I believe that over time, as word spreads and more join the boycott, we can grow this into a seven-figure annual impact - particularly when, in markets where we have a strong presence, we start talking to bookstores that carry Tor products.  Given current economic conditions and the present and predicted state of the SF/F market, our boycott may in due course make the difference between a profit and a loss in Tor's annual trading accounts.

Finally, there are some who fear that we can't succeed in the face of what they consider overwhelming support for liberal/progressive/left-wing ideologies in our society.  To them I can only say, never take counsel of your fears.  Stand tall.  Turn Alinsky's own tactics against his followers.  Boycotts are a part of his script.  Use them.  You'll be surprised at what hard work and dedication can achieve.  I've seen that in a country and a continent ripped apart by war (where I learned such tactics by watching the disciples of those who taught Alinsky and his mentors in the first place).  It's a whole lot easier to succeed in a society like ours.

Peter

66 comments:

Dave said...

It could be that they don't want to be seen as responding to your deadline. They may be taking action internally that won't be immediately obvious

windsong said...

I'm sad that it has come to this, but I'm in. I will also be removing Tor books from my wishlist.

Chris Scena said...

I was of this mindset when I read Moshe Feder's comments about the Sad Puppies a month ago. I am firmly of a mind that both he and Gallo need to go before I will purchase another Tor or Macmillan book.

It's sad. I really enjoy Brandon Sanderson's books, but I refuse to support someone who openly derides and insults me, and Feder is his editor.

Book _Girl said...

I too will stop purchasing any TOR books until Ms. Gallo has been removed from her position.

John Seavey said...

Went out and bought three Tor books today. Guess you'll have to not-buy extra hard to compensate.

Nathan said...

Go out and buy ten more, just to compensate for me, please.

Pete said...

Well said, Peter. Sure, the SJWs will run out and support Tor this week, and next week, and the week after ... maybe. But how many copies of Redshirts does anyone need? Meanwhile, there are plenty of independent SF authors worth trying.

I say game on.

Anonymous said...

I just did a quick count of my bookshelf.

119 books with Tor on the cover, mostly hardbacks, bought new. I have shelves full when one of my favorites has a large body of work.


I haven't looked at my kindle yet. Given that some of my favorite authors are on Tor, I suspect half or more of the kindle is Tor.

I've also noticed that a large number of books I kept just to be sure I never bought them again have Tor on the cover.

Take away 5 or 6 favorite authors and I'd have a LOT fewer Tor books too.

nick



I have a surprising number of Bantam Spectrum, and Del Rey. If it weren't for those 2, Tor, and Baen, my shelves would be pretty bare, with only a few small press books there.

Michael Z. Williamson said...

John Seavey is buying books from a publisher that endorses and publishes the works of known and convicted pedophiles.

But at least they're not "right wingers."

Dave said...

...always lie.

Da Curly Wolf said...

And so it begins.

Habakkuk21 said...

Yeah.I'm in. One drop at a time.

kent18 said...

Tor can have Irene Gallo, or it can have my continued patronage. It cannot have both.

Until such time as it (finally) stands up and does the right thing, both Tor and its product are dead to me.

Achillea said...

Just removed 22 Tor books from my Amazon wishlist. Mr. Seavey's going to have to try 7 times harder just to make up for me alone.

Meredith Dixon said...

I'm in. I read SF&F, and, according to Amazon, I buy an average of ten new books a month. From now on, until Irene Gallo and Moshe Feder are no longer associated with Macmillan, none of those books will be published by Tor, and I'll think twice before buying a book published by another Macmillan company. Peter, I know that goes farther than you're calling for, but I think it's appropriate all the same.

Before all this happened, I didn't even know which imprints were Macmillan's, but I've made a list to check against. There are a lot of them but the ones I actually have on my shelves are Farrar, Straus & Giroux, Henry Holt, and St. Martin's Press.

Thomas said...

Cry havoc and let slip the puppies of war.

kamas716 said...

I'm not sure how much a boycott will affect Tor, but I really don't care either. I've heard that today is also 'buy Tor books day', but I really don't care. Whether Tor comes out of this or not isn't my concern. My only concern here is that I refuse to buy product from a company that has employees who publicly despise me.

Keith Glass said...

Just a note on timing of effect, and the logistics of a boycott. Once a book is bought by bookstores or a larger entity like Amazon, the publisher already made THEIR money.

So the effect on TOR and MacMillan will not be immediate, but growing over the months.

This is a long game.

Stephen J. said...

I'm in, though I buy so few books these days of any type -- my to-read list is already too long and my reading time ever-shrinking -- that my participation is unlikely to have much effect. But for the sake of doing the right thing, I can make sure what little I buy isn't bought as an original from Tor. (Thank God Jim Butcher's with ROC.)

Unknown said...

I'll be checking the publisher from now on before I buy. But if it part of a series I'm reading I'll probably buy it.

OTOH: I stopped buying Scalzi after "Red Shirts". That was a rip off on so many levels.

W. Fleetwood said...

A minor point. I believe the Nazis were the National Socialist German (Deutsche) Workers Party. The German Socialist Democratic Party was a communist front group that dropped the mask once the Soviet Union was in charge in East Germany. A lot of one time Nazis were sheep dipped into good communist standing through the GSDP and yes there was/is damn little to choose between the two.

Meredith Dixon said...

Keith Glass wrote:

Just a note on timing of effect, and the logistics of a boycott. Once a book is bought by bookstores or a larger entity like Amazon, the publisher already made THEIR money.

Happily, you are mistaken. That's not how the new-book business works. Only used bookstores buy their stock outright.

Bookstores that sell new books buy most if not all of them from middlemen called "distributors," such as Ingram's, and they have the right to return the books for what they paid for them minus a restocking fee if they do not sell. Distributors, likewise, have the right to return unsold books to the publishers, again minus a restocking fee.

If the boycott works, Tor will end up remaindering a lot of its current list (i.e., trying to sell them for pennies on the dollar to avoid year-end inventory taxes). And the best part of that is that the authors still get full royalties on remaindered books.

Achillea said...

and they have the right to return the books for what they paid for them minus a restocking fee if they do not sell.

If memory serves, what they return is just the torn-off front cover (at least for paperbacks). The rest of the book they theoretically toss, though I've seen remaindered copies floating around from time to time.

Anonymous said...

Got a library card yesterday and found the local used bookstore today. I'm good to go. I'll still read my favorite authors and keep my money away from Tor.

Anonymous said...

Peter (or anyone else who knows),
I am in this boycott. My nephew has been urging me to "Torrent" books illegally for free and I am now going to take him up on his offer as well as starting to hang out at 2nd hand book stores.

However I do NOT be dishonest and ripoff some of my favorite authors (with whom I have no beef). Since most authors have a webpage with a "tip"/donate button I would like to pay my favorite authors the amount they would normally get if I purchased a physical book.

Does anyone know how much an author normally gets for a paperback, trade edition, or hardbound book so I can pay the authors for the intellectual property?

Thank you
NukemJikm

BornLib said...

Peter, I'm not clear under what circumstances the boycott would be lifted. All you say is "from now on." Could you clarify?

Meredith Dixon said...

NukemJikm wrote:
Does anyone know how much an author normally gets for a paperback, trade edition, or hardbound book so I can pay the authors for the intellectual property?

Royalties vary a great deal, but a good rule of thumb (in traditional publishing) is 10% to 15% of hardback price and half that, 5% to 7.5%, for a paperback.

Peter said...

@Bornlib: As far as I'm concerned, I'll stop boycotting Tor as soon as Tor has taken the actions I requested - they're listed above.

Of course, I don't speak for others. I know Vox Day is demanding resignations or dismissals of certain individuals, so without that he'll probably continue his boycott. I haven't made those demands, so that condition doesn't apply to me.

Meredith Dixon said...

Achillea said:

If memory serves, what they return is just the torn-off front cover (at least for paperbacks).

That's just for paperbacks, and, I believe, only for mass-market ones. It's harder to tear the front cover off a hardback.

Old NFO said...

Sigh... Sad that it's come to this. Took all the Tor authors off my wish list, and cancelled a couple of pre-orders.

Anonymous said...

Well, Tor's decision has just saved me at least sixty bucks in the near future, which is the Kindle price for Cixin Liu's "Three-Body Problem," Weber's "Hell's Foundations Quiver" - actually, I would have paid hardcover price for that one - and Sanderson's upcoming two Mistborn sequels.

I'll just get 'em from the library, or wait a couple of months and pick them up from Half-Price Books.

(Looking over my book collection, my Tor novels are largely accounted for by four series: Jordan/Sanderson's Wheel of Time; Sanderson's own Mistborn series; Weber's Safehold novels and Turtledove's six-volume "Into the Darkness" set. There were a few other Tor books in my collection, including the first couple volumes of Sanderson's Stormlight Archive, but they were purged in The Great Reduction of 2014, when I had to radically downsize my book collection prior to moving. Most of my sci-fi is Baen, with a few odds and sods from Del Rey and Ace.

Which means that I've mostly already been boycotting Tor, and didn't know it.)

--Wes S.

Anonymous said...

Donate all your Tor books to a used book store. Someone can buy them used instead of new.

Old Patriot said...

I had already decided to boycott TOR, based on some previous bullcrap they'd dumped on the Internet, especially that husband/wife team of crapweasels that won't be named. Gallo only ensured I'd stick with it. I'm also going to start spreading the names of Indie and independent authors that mostly publish through Amazon whose books I like. And then there's Baen. The rest of the big three/four/five/six/eleven can do without my cash, unless it's something I absolutely have to have, can't find used, and no one else has it. There are very, very few books in that category.

I'm also going to repost about all the free ebook sites there are out there that also don't support TOR or the rest.

Sad Puppy said...

I'm in on the boycott. I'll replace Tor with collecting old copies of Forgotten Realms novels that have evaded me through the years.

Joe in PNG said...

Count me in as well.

Wraith said...

(cartman) Screw you guys, I'm buying Baen! (/cartman)

Son of Jor-El said...

Question about the publishing industry:
You can return a Kindle or Audible book, I believe for one year after buying it. How dose that affect the Author or Publisher's cut?

Anonymous said...

So, hold up a second.

You claim here that you are neither Sad nor Rapid Puppy.

And yet you claim that Ms. Gallo, in calling said groups "neo-nazis", called YOU, PERSONALLY a nazi.

How does that track?

I mean, really, Pete. Ms. Gallo in all likelihood has no clue who you are, let alone is issuing insluts at you, personally. Have some perspective.

Geodkyt said...

Well, Hell, I *like* Drake's fantasies, , Glen Cook, and Stephen Brust.

Guess I'll be using my library card more often... (No, I won't buy used, as that means someone else will end up having to buy new to get a copy, eventually. Nor will I steal books as some have suggested by reading "remaindered" or Torrented books, because I disagree with the ethics of that. It's one thing to read something free, with permission (library copy, free download a la Baen, etc.) - it's another to steal it. Even if its the same exact work I could legally get free elsewhere. YMMV, but that's where I draw an ethical line. :) )

Peter said...

@Anonymous at 10:00 PM: Please read Ms. Gallo's statement for yourself. She called every member of Sad/Rabid Puppies, and their sympathizers, and their supporters (of whom I'm one for the Sad Puppies, but not an active member), all of the names she used. Therefore, yes, she DID call me a 'neo-Nazi', even if only as a member of a group of them.

And yes, I do take that personally. If you've bothered to read my earlier posts, you'll understand why. If, having read them, you still don't understand, then I'm sorry for you.

BigFire said...

Peter, reading comprehension is over rated with SJW. They see only what they're permitted to see, and think what's only allowed.

Technomad said...

I almost never buy books new. About the only exception I make is when I run into Glen Cook at a con and buy a book or two from him.

That said, these idiots at Tor need a lesson taught to them, and that right quickly.

Sane Puppy said...

a) Please note little word "respectively" in Gallo's comment. It means she did not call the sad puppies "neo-nazi" - only the rabid puppies. (And anyone who miss something as obvious as this shouldn't whine about other people's poor reading comprehension.)

b) Gallo talked about the group, and named no individual. To assume she meant to include absolutely everyone vaguely associated with the group - including people she didn't know about - is silly. She was most likely talking about the organizers, and about what she percieved as the group's public agenda. (And sure, it can still be debated how correct her comment was - but to take it as a personal insult to you because you voted the sad puppy slate is to make yourself more important than you are.)

c) Gallo has apologized. I.e. you have already the retraction you're asking for.

(And not that it really matters, but that "the nazis are leftwing" argument is stupid. Seriously. Or do you want to argue that North Korea is a democracy and a republic, since it calls itself "Democratic People's Republic of Korea"? Or that East Germany - "German Democratic Republic" - was democratic?)

Anonymous said...

Nowhere in Gallo's message did she mention supporters. To claim that she did is a lie.

kamas716 said...

@NukemJikm

As opposed to doing something illegal like torrenting eBooks, you could take advantage of other deals. Just off the top of my head there is free SF/F available at:

1) Baen Free Library (Baen.com)
2) Free Baen CDs (http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/) you can download the CD images as .zip files and then convert the eBook files into whatever form your eReader takes if they aren't already there. (Calibre is a free eLibrary program that will convert)
3) Every month Phoenix Pick (http://phoenixpick.com/) offers a free eBook. You can sign up for their newsletter and find out what it is at the beginning of each month

The Baen selections by themselves amount to several hundred books. In addition there is the library, Free Fridays through B&N (though they rarely have SF/F) and I think Copia still has a monthly deal as well. Castilia House just gave away John C. Wrights nominated stories. And if you have a Kindle there is Kindle Unlimited.

BornLib said...

@Peter Grant

Okay, it's confusing because Vox says you also want them fired. Here is how he put it on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/voxday/status/610714439269097473

Vox Day ‏@voxday Jun 16
Peter Grant has announced that the #OpTorDrop boycott will begin on 6/19 if anti-#SadPuppies Irene Gallo is still @torbooks then. #GamerGate

Peter said...

@Sane Puppy at 3:33 AM and Anonymous at 4:18 AM: You're both examples of what I wrote about in a previous article:

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-tor-imbroglio-and-progressive.html

You're both ignoring the overall thrust of what I said, and instead trying to nit-pick details to divert attention from that message. If you can get me (or anyone else) to become caught up in the minutiae, you'll have succeeded in derailing the issue.

You won't.

The truth of what I said, and the essence of my complaint, are obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Ms. Gallo did, most emphatically, insult and degrade all Puppies of whatever stripe in saying what she did. To try to restrict her use of the term 'neo-Nazi' to one group on the basis of tortuous linguistic twisting is pointless. I'm not going to play that game at all.

The SJW's are great at saying, "Well, prove this little toenail right here!" or "But what about that trunk there?" - all the while ignoring the reality that there's an elephant in the living-room. Kindly deal with the elephant. In sorting out the overall problem, the details will take care of themselves.

Peter said...

@Bornlib: If you want to know what anyone thinks, ask them - not others who claim to speak for them. My message, my expectations, have been consistent from the start. I did not and will not ask for any resignations or dismissals - even though, in most well-run companies, they'd have happened long ago after such catastrophic errors of judgment. I've set out what I expect in the pages of this blog. That's all I'm after.

Anonymous said...

Sorry "overall thrust" is a very lame excuse for a lie. You have been pretending that Gallo said something about you. She didn't. You know she didn't. So why lie? If you have a strong case for boycotting Tor it won't need lies to back it up.

If you want to make yourself look like a bully then threats and lies will do it. Which is the better option? Truth or lies?

Integrity always wins in the end.

Peter said...

@Anonymous at 6:50 AM: Yes, integrity always does win in the end. That's why I'm doing this - because of the demands of integrity. Look up the meaning of that word in the dictionary.

Also, I note that I'm commenting openly, honestly and under my own name. You're casting aspersions and accusations of lying under the cloak of anonymity. Integrity?

Herb Nowell said...

@SanePuppy: Please tell me which of the following are right wing:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

That's the majority of Hilter's 25 points. Again, which ones are right wing?

Herb Nowell said...

@SanePuppy:

If you're having trouble understanding why "radical right wingers" supported so many socialist items that I listed above I recommend a good history of the Socialist International during the First World War. Fascism in both Italy and Germany were a response to a huge failure in Marxist theory: that a capitalist war would result in the uprising of the masses. Not only did this not happen in general but the only place it did was Russia which was an agrarian nation. As someone who has studied Marx surely you know he predicted this was impossible. Marxist theory of history at the time required nations go through industrialization to be able to move to Marxism. Understanding how agrarian societies could do so in theoretical terms was the work of Lenin.

However, this did not explain why the workers of Italy, Germany, France, the UK, etc allowed their explotation in the Great War. The most common theories today grow out of the work of Antonio Gramsci where ideas such as "false consciousness" arise. However, an alternative was the idea that socialism would not occur with worker unity across the globe, international socialism, but in the context of a given nation and people, national socialism. I'd point out the success of socialism in one nation despite it being agrarian lent some credence to that idea.

So that is what Nazis are socialist. It isn't just because of their name. It is because the majority of their political platform was socialist. The parts that were not, the nationalist parts, were an attempt to adapt socialism to the reality of the predicted socialist revolution that would result from a capitalist war not happening during The Great War.

I mean, sh!t on a Popsicle stick. I'm an anti-communist yet I seem to understand socialism better than you and 99.999% of actual socialists.

James Sullivan said...

Sane Puppy and Anonymous (yet another member of the cowardly, fascist bullies.

Here we have an example of Leftism-In-Action: Call or insinuate that Peter Grant is a bully. While accusing him of bullying. Mention Integrity while hiding behind anonymity.

Cowards. Cowards, every single one of you.

Sane Puppy mentions the "Apology". Please. She offered something alright. A turd, a non-apology or un-apology. She didn't say she was sorry for what she said, she said she was sorry that people were offended. In other words, she weaseled it. It says it's your fault you were offended, not her's. And any functional, sane adult knows an apology like that is a snarky, insincere and smug. Not to mention condescending. Her un-apology was an insult piled on the previous insults.



The two of you: Exhibit A and B why I turned against the Left side years ago. You have no intellectual honesty, no integrity, but above all, no shame.


Let the Boycott begin.

Yesterday, I cancelled two Amazon Pre-orders. And removed no less than 18 books from my wish list.

I know I am not alone. Just one more person who spoke up.

Keep it up Peter!

Shadowdancer Duskstar said...

By the way, remember how the Torlings and CHORFs claimed we're all bots? I saw this at Vox's.

http://voxday.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/the-first-law-in-action.html

The Vile 770ers are using bots.

OH THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH LOLS

Kirk said...

Just went through my book purchase for the first half of this year.

Kind of looks like this for the first 59 books from January1 to June 20 2015.

Self Published/CreateSpace : 49
Fynbos Press:2
Baen: 3
DAW: 3
Quirky Algorithms: 1
47North:1

It appears that my boycott of TOR started a bit early.

Going through my author publisher list going back to March 2009 when I switched to Digital from dead tree I see the following publishers.
Baen
Harper Collins
ACE
Dell
ROC
and yes TOR

Sorry TOR authors I won't be buying any of your books for a while, you may want to speak to your publisher... But then again L.E. Modesitt might do some SiFi again and I would be sorely tempted...

Anonymous said...

I see the pinhead-dancers and grammar-parsers are out in force. And it's complete crapola again. These are the same people that claim harassment and offense are subjective and in the eye of the beholder, unless you're not one of them. Then you're supposed to have vetted everything in advance with four English professors, three lawyers, and have preemptively documented and nailed down everything with criminal-court-level standards of proof BEFORE you can even imply you took it personally.

Gallo's non-apology was "I'm sorry you didn't like me calling you a Nazi." That's not an apology.

Anonymous said...


So on a site of a man who is actively organizing a boycott of a woman's employer because he didn't like what she said on the internet, you expect people to criticize him and provide their REAL names? Yeah right.

It isn't a matter of debate that Peter is lying when he claims Gallo insulted him or called him a neo-nazi. She didn't do either of those things. When people ask him to back him up he waffles about elephants.

Anyone reading this thread can see that he keeps avoiding this issue and trying to divert the question.

Sorry but people with integrity don't behave that way.

Joe in PNG said...

Anon the Troll- English comprehension is not your strongest subject, is it? Our gracious host has neatly laid out his grievances with Ms. Gallo over a series of post during the past few days.
A good majority of commentators, myself included, can perfectly understand what his point is.
Why can't you? I can think of two reasons:
-You are unable to comprehend clear English.
-You are using weasel words to cloud the meaning of Ms. Gallo's insult, functioning in the rather Nixonian role of Spindoctor (either paid or freelance).
Actually, in hindsight, Spindoctor is a bit harsh- most PR Hacks wouldn't bungle this problem so badly, so terribly. Hell, your semantic nitpicks are actually making the problem for your beloved Tor worse.

Anonymous said...

Well he has written a lot but the fact remains that at no point did Gallo call him a neo-nazi. She didn't even call all of the actual puppy group neo-nazis and Peter Grant is quite clear (at least at the moment) that he isn't anything but somebody who sort of supports their aims.

"problem for your beloved Tor worse" - I couldn't give a rats arse about Tor.

What I am seeing is a man causing as much fuss as he can because he didn't like what somebody wrote on the Internet. The main reason why people do things like that is to create a 'chilling' effect on what people say. It is a well known tactic of political extremist on both left and right sides, as well as a tactic deployed by cranks and fraudsters. And no, for the semantically challenged, I did not just call Grant any of those things.

Trying to make critics you don't like go away or stop talking out of fear that you'll go give their employer a hard time isn't nice. But, you know, if you want to adopt the ethics of the far left that is your call. Just don't call it 'integrity' because it isn't.

Peter said...

@Anonymous at 4:35 PM: Thank you for demonstrating, in a single comment, the accuracy of the points I made in this article:

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-tor-imbroglio-and-progressive.html

That was very kind of you.

BornLib said...

@Peter Grant

Thank you. I'm on board under your terms, rather than Vox's then.

kent18 said...

@Anonymous at 4:35 PM:

Dance, monkey.

Joe in PNG said...

Anon the troll: why am I not convinced by your denial? You come across as bit of astroturf trying, and failing btw to walk back the damage done by a particularly asinine statement.

Shadowdancer Duskstar said...

Take heart, Peter! Their desperation is clear, because they're attempting to 'discredit' a long-term effecting and affecting boycott already.

http://www.starburstmagazine.com/book-news/12304-book-boycott-backfires

Blond_Engineer said...

Just cancelled two pre-orders, and will be checking the publisher name before buying in the future.

TOR and others companies like it need to learn that they cannot let their employees go around insulting their customers, denegrating our characters, and then insulting our intelligence, while in thr course of conducting their business.

A lot of people are making a big deal of it being Irene's 'personal' fb page. But she was not using it in a personal manner at the time she made the false and inflamatory statements. She was using it in her professional persona and that is unacceptable.

Jonathan H said...

While I am just learning about the TOR boycott, it turns out I have been unintentionally doing it for the last year - I have have been feeling like more and more of what they publish is poor quality, published at whim, and overpriced.
I WAS a big fan of the Safehold series and it WAS the only series I would pay full price for a hard cover of, but the last 2 books have been much more poorly written and hard to follow and enjoy so I long ago determined that IF I buy the future books, it will not be at full price.
I have been reading lots of Baen recently and find it much better, as well as much easier on my pocket (paperbacks, the free library, and the free CD's are a great way to become familiar with their authors and series).
I like your careful, thoughtful, non-emotional response to TOR - I support it; keep up the good work!