I've had a few questions on that subject from readers in recent weeks, enough that I figured it was worth devoting an entire blog post to the subject. However, I'm not an expert on the subject, so allow me to introduce you to someone who is.
Mike Branson was with Swampfox Optics for several years, and then moved on to Gideon Optics, where he works today. He's acknowledged by many in the firearms industry as highly knowledgeable in the field of fighting optics, and has recorded several very useful videos on the subject.
Let's start with an interview he did with Ian McCullum of Forgotten Weapons at last year's SHOT Show about the differences between cheap and expensive red dot sights.
At the same event, Mike described Low-Power Variable Optics (LPVO's), which are a step up from red dot sights, and what to look for in an LPVO.
How do you choose between optics and reticles? Mike explains below.
While choosing one's optic, what sight should one use? Dot, circle-dot, or a more complex reticle? Red or green? There are many options.
Finally, how cheap can you - or should you - go in the price of your optic? It depends on its expected use.
There you have it - about as comprehensive an overview of fighting optics as I think you'll find anywhere. Sure, there are more specialized videos and documents out there, but many of them are classified materials, and others are so specialized they'd be over our heads. Thanks to Mike Branson for producing a very clear summary of the most important information, helping ordinary folks like you and I find what we need. I've bought from him at both Swampfox Optics and Gideon Optics, and I'm a very satisfied customer. (No, I'm not shilling for him, nor is this an advertisement for his company: he's not even aware that I'm writing this article. He's just a good guy whom my wife and I are pleased to call our friend.)
Peter
12 comments:
The only thing I have optics on is my 30-06. I have tried scopes and red dots and various other things. But iron sights work best for me. Except for the Ruger American. It shoots farther than I can see. I paid more for the scope than I did for the gun.
I have put a few red dots on my pistols. Some were good and some were not. I have a few Swampfox and they hold up well.
Another fun topic.
I hate almost all optics with a passion. But not because they are optics, it's because they are serious points of failure.
I have needed a gun a few times "right damn now!" in my life. Luckily none of those cases were self defense but were more in the name of varmints attacking my animals or livestock. Back in the day with iron sights "me 1 varmint 0" the last two times in the a 10 year span it was "varmint 1 me 0" The reason was I had red dots on the weapons. Once a Bushnell and the second time a Holoson. Each time the battery had died. I scared the hell out of the fox but did not hit it. Luckily the time it had one of my chickens in its mouth it dropped it and ran and the chicken survived :) Needless to say I was pissed. Those were just the times I needed a gun right that moment.
I have had multiple times sport shooting that batteries died, or the mechanicals on the sight went bad. Another Holosun that I had the the aim point/led started moving on its own in total disregard to the adjustments being made. I'm assuming something came loose inside. However that shooting session was over for that gun.
Optics are a point of failure!
Now... I'm not such a Luddite that I'm going to say no to all optics, actually I have optics on almost everything, but I've become really picky. I really like the functionality of a working red dot and at night for home defense nothing can beat a functioning one.
Here are after 40 years of experience both military and personal what I have come to like on the budget I'm constrained to. See next post, I got hammered by the "this post is to long issue".
For rifle red dots... I won't bother unless its tritium powered. Red dot no battery needed. It also needs to be mil spec and have been in service for a while so that all the bugs are worked out. Since I can't afford Trijicon I ended up going with IWI's Mepro21 that is an older generation now out of service Israeli military issue unit. They are heavy and clunky, built like a tank (13.6 ounces of aluminum housing and quick release mount) and in 15 plus years of using them I have never once had an issue with it working, going out of zero or anything. You could drive your car over one and then could pick it up and put it back on your rifle and start shooting. I think any Aimpoint or Trijicon of similar function would work to. I am sure there are other options but im unaware of them. The reason I choose the IWI was simply price. When I started buying them I could buy one on sale for mid to low 300's now they are in the mid to low 400's. 2 to 3 hundred less than the comparable trijicon's. They are also sold on amazon :) (personal note on the Mepro21 and a feature I really like that I haven't seen elsewhere is their triangle dot. the tip of the triangle on top is 1 or 2 moa and I always zero the tip of the triangle. It gives me good precision accuracy past 300 yards the few times I shoot longer range. Up close the triangle is a 12 moa in size and you can throw it on target instantly. They have circle and x and + reticles also.
I never worry if my optic is going to work when I pick up a rifle with one of these on it. It meet's my highest award and qualification for anything I use called "It just works!"
I have similar complaints with variable magnification scopes. I have never had one that didn't eventually have issues. Batteries dying being my biggest but also the scopes just mechanically dying inside eventually. I still have them for my long barrel rifles in 5.56 and 308 but I moved to a budget primary arms models that if the battery dies the reticle is etched into the optics and they are 1x6 or 1x8 so a good compromise scope for the limited usage i have anymore. Good for hunting and good fallback to close quick shooting as a make do red dot. for all general conditions.
Only reason I picked primary arms is that they seemed to provide more quality than the dollars you spend and at 400 ish dollars for the scopes I got hopefully they will do well into the future. On a budget the expense hurts every time I purchase even one of these level optics. However it is what it is. I had purchased quite a few of the price level between 100 and 250 over the years and they were always problematic. So far I haven't had any issues with the primary arms but I also don't use my guns as much anymore either.
The next rule if we consider these rules is that I have mechanical sights co-witnessed with the red dots just in case and on the rifles with variable magnification sights on them. Back to the first point "complex optics with batteries and mechanical systems are a point of failure".
Though my eyes are bad I can still hit minute of man with iron sights of all varieties out to well over 100 yards. Probably still at 300 also but it's been more than a decade since I have had a place to shoot at that range so who knows. Iron sight still are the base reliable must have on any rifle or pistol. as all other optics are complex systems that can and will fail more often. If your like me nowadays that you don't shoot every week or even month and sometimes a year or two will go buy as your health declines and your body doesn't work as well you need what your going to pick up and use in an emergency to be as reliable as you can make it. so that it will work when you do need it.
I'm not going to comment on red dots on pistols to much as I don't use them. I have liked the ones I have seen on other peoples weapons in use. My brother uses them and swears by them. His eye's sight is such that he can't even see iron sights so I give him a lot of leeway and he is hell on wheels using the red dot. I do note that I get to hear his bitching over money wasted on ones that didn't hold up or had one issue or another, or dot flare on some because of his astigmatism. He seems pretty happy with what he has settled on over the last few years though. I can't remember off hand what that is though.
For any reasonable self defense range, iron sights still work for me, and i get very good minute of man shooting. Actually it's better than that but it sounds good. Because of this I have never needed a red dot and have considered the expense unjustifiable for myself. All the pistol's do have tritium night sights on them though :)
ehhh.. that's it. all the above is just my personal preference based on experience and my small ass budget that keeps getting smaller.
I agree that red dot sights can be a point of failure. However, as I grow older, my eyes do too. My close-up vision (needed to focus on the printed word, or on a front sight) is now so poor that I need reading glasses: and since there's no guarantee I'll be wearing them when trouble comes, I need a sight I can actually see and hit with! I find the circle-dot reticle is most usable for my eyes, and with it I can hit a target 100 yards away, even with a handgun. If I use iron sights alone, I'll be lucky to land an accurate hit at 10-15 yards. It's really a no-brainer choice for me to put optics on my fighting handguns and carbines.
Prism 1x or 2.5 to 5x are primarily what I run on fighting guns. Less enthusiastic about lpvos than I used to be... do consider offset red dots at 1x instead of buall. Fixed mag prisms are also much lighter and generally more robust than lpvos.
B/c for positive ID, you really need 2 to 2.5x per 100 yds/meters and lpvos with smaller objective lens have poorer low light performance than those with larger lenses, and usually have larger tubes too. So have more purpose built precision builds (spr/dmr etc starting at 2.5, 3, 4x, etc) instead of lpvos as do alls.
There are some new red dots for for folks with astigmatism that aren't prism, but have trialed those.
Also, swampfox appears to build at least some of their optics by same folks as vortex's budget to midrange lines. No experience with gideon.
Got a red dot to compensate for aging eyes. On word...Vortex. Good quality products, great customer service.
Seconded - both red dots for compensation for aging eyes and Vortex.
*consider 1x red dots or reflex offset instead of buis... no idea what "buall" is.
2 to 2.5x is say 500 yards, you'd want 5 times 2 to 2.5 so 10 to 12.5x to pid at that range AND have better than minute of man capability. 400 would be 8 to 10x, etc.
Hope rest is clearer than mud.
Red dots do NOT work with astigmatism. The dot looks like a comet to me--kinda hard to aim with it. I use prism sights, which are similar but have an etched reticle that can be lit. It would be the best of all worlds if they were a little smaller. They're fine for a carbine, but too large/heavy for most handguns (but OK on something like a braced Draco [grin]). I'll stick with irons on carry handguns.
--Bob G
Lasers are a suitable substitute for most reflex uses on handguns/pdws, and work without aligning weapon to eye... even center beam of weapon mounted flashlights work for minute of man at most self defense distances - bad breath to stones throw. I wouldn't run just irons on anything except a deep concealment backup gun these days given so many other options... and I prefer irons on pistols, so why lasers and/or lights over reflex.
No experience but have heard good reports on some of the anti-astigmatism red dots/reflex sights as well...
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