Friday, November 10, 2023

Minor domestic crisis this morning


Woke up to a very wet (sodden!) kitchen floor, and an overflowing dishwasher.  I don't think it's a blocked drain, or something simple like that, because when emptied, the dishwasher keeps filling up again.  It'll be a plumber day, I'm afraid, and possibly a replacement dishwasher.

That being the case, and working around mopping, pumping, buckets and two curious cats who Want. To. Help., I suspect I won't have much time for blogging today.  Please amuse yourselves with the bloggers in the sidebar.  They write good, too!


EDITED TO ADD:  09h50 - Plumber has been and gone.  Leak stopped.  Now for insurance assessment of damage, and getting hold of an appliance service company to fix/replace the dishwasher.  So far, so good.


Cedar said...

Oh dear! Hopefully it gets back to dry and normal quickly!

tweell said...

All dishwasher setups that I have seen use the kitchen sink hot water. Shut that valve and the dishwasher won't be filling up any more.

Anonymous said...

Just in the process of helping my Mother with her insurance replacement of lower kitchen cabinets and floor. Ain't no fun to have water loose in the kitchen.

Mind your own business said...

Water outlet from water mover - Check the drain hose connection (probably to the kitchen sink).

Water mover - Is the water pump trying to drain (can you hear it running)?

Water inlet to water mover - Check the filter to see if it is plugged up and preventing water getting to the pump.

Jmparret said...

I had that problem and just replaced the water inlet valve. There were a few other problems that i had to take care of but they occurred after replacing the valve. Appliance repair person is easier.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like you're ahead of the curve - good luck!

RCPete said...

We had the dishwasher supply fitting crack on us (apparently the no-lead brass is really fragile--the plumber-installed replacement died the same way a year later).

We didn't see the water (it sprayed to the back of the cabinet) and it destroyed the underlayment, much of the subfloor and base cabinets in half of the kitchen.

FWIW, Belfor Restoration is a good company when the disaster is really bad. We had to deal with mold and a lot of rotted particle board. That took the kitchen out of service for several weeks, though we took the opportunity to replace the rest of the base cabinets.

We got lucky when the fixture failed again. Caught it right away, and the plumber was coming for another project the same day, so we got it fixed immediately. Home Depot sells an inexpensive leak alarm. We have one for the dishwasher and another for the hot water heater. They were under $20 before Covidiocy.

Locally, there's hesitation about the other advertised restoration company (green trucks). Seems they hire people of sketchy backgrounds... YMMV.

Anonymous said...

Get a repair estimate if possible before filing the insurance claim. It the repairs are not much more than your deductible, you may just want to pay out of pocket
Insurance companies hate water claims. Your homeowners premium will go up because of the claim.
I am an old insurance agent, I know of what I speak.

Hamsterman said...

Sorry it happened. I work in "high-reliability" and am always disappointed when fault detection and response is not even an option on appliances, let alone when they've put electronics in things that make it nearly a cost-free option.

For a dishwasher, the gap in time between valve activation and cutoff signal from the float would be a 'free' indicator. A leak sensor would be a hardware option that would catch more faults. Attempting to cycle the valve on/off a few times while beeping a lot would be the response.

Anonymous said...

I have had real problems with my dishwasher but I told her to straighten up or I'll find someone else.

Andrew Smith said...

I remain slightly suspicious of the cats, and their continued lurking at the scene of the crime. Just saying.

Will said...

Two operator caused problems with dishwashers is leaving too much food residue on the dishes, and too much grease/oils holding that food to the dishes.

Two amplifying conditions are insufficient hot water reaching the machine, and the .gov mandated lousy soap they want you to use in an attempt to clean the contents. A small dab of Dawn dishwashing liquid is your friend. The little multi-colored liquid soap pods generally do a reasonable cleaning job, unless most of your diet is ethnic fried food or other grease assemblies.

Unless your hot water heater is under the sink, you should run the sink faucet until you get the water as hot as it will get, prior to starting the machine. For this reason, I suggest that you ignore the delayed starting time option.

BTW, if you run your hot water heater at the "recommended" setting, it probably won't be hot enough to properly clean things. IIRC, that setting is 120*F AT THE HEATER. (Get an IR meter to check at the sinks, and for general food cooking purposes) Water heaters used to be set at 140*F. That can be a problem for some people, so be careful about changing that setting. Small children and some elderly can be at hazard.

The grease problem isn't a one day buildup. It seems to get deposited in a coating that builds up over many days, until the passages get so tight that the grease sits in the pump intake and solidifies. Fixing that situation requires a sink sprayer with long hose, a small flexible plastic container, and some Dawn or similar grease cutter.

Bail the water out, after removing the dish racks, and any removable filters/screens in the bottom of the dish cleaning area. Pour some de-greaser into the bottom and throw some hot water on it, and let it sit a few minutes. Hit the drain setting, and see if the pump can move anything. Bail, soap, and repeat until it starts draining. This process can sometimes take an hour or two.

Peter said...

@Will: The problem wasn't a lack of drainage, it's that the dishwasher kept on refilling itself! It's an intake issue. It's disconnected now, and out on the patio. We'll find out next week whether it can be repaired, or whether we'll have to replace it.

lynn said...

The last dishwasher I bought was a Bosch 300 series that we had for four year before I sold the house and moved to high ground after Hurricane Harvey. I loved the 3rd rack up top, the wife thought it was just ok. Quiet and just worked.

Jeff said...

I got that beat. Deep freeze forecast in Memphis spooked me into shutting off water at the street. I have pipes running the length of the attic so I drained all the upstairs taps. Thought I was in the clear. Unbeknownst to me, there was a trap in the AC drain (also in the attic but buried in fiberglass insulation) which blew out during the one week deep freeze. TWO MONTHS LATER, after the AC was running for 3 days, I stepped in a puddle in the first floor kitchen.

RCPete said...

We've had good luck with the Fridaire Gallery dishwasher. Bought it in 2014 for $529, so mileage will vary.

It has sensors and will throw codes if it has a problem with filling or emptying. (There was an issue due to crud blocking the sensor; they fixed it in later runs, but the repair kit was very affordable, though it had more than I needed. As it turns out, our well water meant some bacterial crud could form in a sump, and a flake of it blocked the sensor. A well aimed squirt with a veterinary syringe cleared the crud, and the plastic barrier from the kit fixed the problem for good. Took 30 minutes to fix.)

Other nice features: Filter that can be popped out and washed. I do it every run. It also has a built-in water heater, so if the house hot water isn't very, it will take care of it. Multiple options for washing/drying. We seldom use the delayed start, but it works. As it is, it's pretty quiet. $SPOUSE loves it.

IIRC, ours was made in Canada. The brand is owned by Electrolux.

Jeff F. said...

I'm glad USAA stepped up...though I am not surprised. I've been a member since I was commissioned lo, these 50 ago and have never had a problem. Got it for the wife and kids, too.

Will said...

a potential problem might be that the pump has a timer that tells the system that it is probably empty, instead of, or as backup, to a bilge level float switch. The action that I have encountered is the system doesn't drain, and then fills up with the water needed for the next cycle. That leads to the tile floor getting wet. This particular problem is entirely due to the owner refusing to believe my observation that the wonderful soap he buys in Costco can not adequately deal with the grease problem. Multiple factors involved, of course.

Will said...

One aggravating problem I've seen for some years now, both personally and from others, is the sudden failure of brass plumbing parts, used both for air and water. Chinesium strikes in a random fashion. It breaks, which is not what one expects from a lump of metal.
The problems that are encountered with Chinese production/manufacturing clearly show that they can not be trusted to maintain any sort of quality in ANYTHING they make. It appears to be a cultural problem, which means there is no practical way to address it. It is what it is.

RCPete said...

My understanding is that the brass issue is more due to the Euronannies. They demanded that lead exposure be reduced to something below zero, and that meant that leaded brass had to be replaced by no-lead versions. The different metallurgy makes for issues, and while I can't rule out Chinesium problems, it's trying to make a different mix work.

FWIW, the same problems occurred when lead-tin solder was treated as horrible stuff. I found that copper plumbing got a whole lot harder to do without the lead, and there have been myriad failures of printed circuit boards due to the different metals.

Forcing people to make changes to legacy products on short notice can be nasty. Add in that famous Oriental quality, and it's brutal.